Coffeehouse Thread

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Windows 7 first impression

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  • Bass

    CannotResolveSymbol said:
    CannotResolveSymbol said:
    *snip*
    Okay...  so don't install the VM additions.

    Made the system unbootable.  Windows Startup Repair worked nicely though:  did a system restore to prior to installing the VM additions and I'm back up and running.

    Rethinking my plans to install on the Mini 12 once it comes in...  this really isn't working out all that well.
    I am getting my Mini very soon. Err I mean my mom is getting her mini. God damnit. Smiley

  • sushovande

    spivonious said:

    Things I like

    • Snipping Tool.  Yeah, we could already do that with Ctrl-PrintScreen and Paint, but it's nice to have it all in one tool.  
    • 7 is a noticeably more responsive than Vista. 
    • desktop peek

    Annoying things:

    • No text next to taskbar buttons by default.  I really don't know the icons for a lot of apps I use.
    • moving a window to the top of the screen maximizes it.  It would be nice if I could hold down a key or something to override this as sometimes I just want to move the window to the top of the screen.
    Snipping tool is not new - it comes with vista as well

    As to prevent a window from being maximized - grip the titlebar of the window at the lower end and make sure your mouse doesnt bang against the top edge of the screen - Viola!

  • BlackTiger

    Will WMP in WinSlevin support aspect ratio change, last position, properly working "back" button, multiple instances? Don't think so...

    If you stumbled and fell down, it doesn't mean yet, that you're going in the wrong direction.
    Last modified
  • stevo_

    You don't know the icons for your apps? thats bizzare.

  • Bas

    I'm sort of annoyed that you still can't change file associations for the Edit command. It's still that same Default Programs dialog that was in Vista, which only lets you associate a program to open the file with.

  • ZippyV

    CannotResolveSymbol said:
    CannotResolveSymbol said:
    *snip*
    Setting up personalized settings for Windows Desktop Update?

    Internet Explorer 4 called...  it wants its dialog back.

    (Seriously:  the IE4/Win98 shell changes are still called the Windows Desktop Update??)
    What are you talking about? What is Windows Desktop Update?

  • Bas

    The action center pops up an awful lot of messages, by the way. I thought Windows 7 was supposed to be less 'noisy' in the notification area?

  • esoteric

    W3bbo said:
    esoteric said:
    *snip*
    CSS is extensible, it allows new properties (provided there is a vendor prefix like "-moz" or "-webkit") and new selectors. You can probably get away with adding your own @blocks too. The specification states that unrecognised syntax should be ignored which makes it future-proof (unless they add in some paradigm-shifting syntax features).

    CSS is a DSL, but it isn't programming since it's declaritive. I don't see the point in making everything have an XML syntax. Keep things simple, and CSS's syntax is a lot more simpler than XMLs, tidier, less clutter, and easier to parse (so simple you can write a fairly robust FSM-based parser by hand in a couple of hours).

    CSS and XSL-FO serve different purposes. You can apply an XSL-FO to any XHTML or XML document in the same way CSS can; it's just that CSS handles pretty much everything whereas XSL-FO is more of a 'roll-your-own' and seems geared towards fixed-format printing, whereas CSS supports many different media types with different methods of rendering (e.g. paged or continous).
    Some points.

    CSS is perhaps extensible from a narrow point of view. Its extensibility is quite poor compared to XML though. Unless you mean to say that you can inject deep structured data inside CSS [comments do not count]. It is also the main disadvantage of plain textual DSLs compared to XML dialects. Unless of course, the serialization syntax is always XML (or some such fully extensible general metasyntax), and the user only sees the textual DSL through an editor.

    There is a project by French language designer Nicolas Cannasse, called HSS, which extends CSS with more programming constructs.


    In a way CSS reminds me of functional programming with pattern matching (as does XSLT, which is a real functional programming language in a way).

    Programs can be declarative. That is the case with SQL.

    XSL-FO does overlap with CSS when it comes to print, but yes, they serve different purposes. I wonder about the XSL{T,FO} model. It has advantages in that it has much more power through arbitrary transformation whereas CSS does not have arbitrary transformation, it does have some content injection mechanisms, can't remember the details, but other than that it mostly decorates and just styles (dah?)

    Speaking of modelling vs programming. I think Eric Meijer has a point about modelling not being so special from programming. But you can limit programming so severely that it becomes "modelling" I suppose. Just because you encode a program as XAML doesn't mean it's not just programming. It's just a subset of what you'd normally have at your disposal. A subset which is more easy to reason about and which is more about constructing object graphs than performing destructive updates.

    This discussion completely side-tracks the thread and ought to be spun out.

  • Cannot​Resolve​Symbol

    ZippyV said:
    CannotResolveSymbol said:
    *snip*
    What are you talking about? What is Windows Desktop Update?
    The Windows Desktop Update was the Windows 98 shell (which integrated Windows Explorer and Internet Explorer).  You could install it as a part of IE4 for Windows 95 and NT4.

  • stevo_

    I realized today that vista really will go down in history as ME version 2, while its great that everyone seems excited about windows 7, I've noticed a lot of people (not here, but other more general forums) have been praising 7 for being much better than vista in terms of x, y, z - when those features were actually in vista, or worked the same in vista.

    It's quite sad Sad Tongue Out

  • SlackmasterK

    Bas said:
    The action center pops up an awful lot of messages, by the way. I thought Windows 7 was supposed to be less 'noisy' in the notification area?
    D00d you gotsta disable the notifications.  But if you do that, Internet pirates will plunders yarrr treasure.

  • brian.​shapiro

    So far, I've submitted several bugs.. I wish I were in the official beta test, though, its frustrating not being able to see the status of your feedback. Or not being able to provide more information to the developers. I plan to continue to submit bugs through the beta process in any case.

  • BitFlipper

    I like the fact that when I use Windows Explorer and click on folders, it goes in there instantly, instead of that retarded 2 second delay.  I could never understand why it would always first pause when you click on a folder.  It is obviously not a technical reason because Win7 does it instantly.

    I also like the window preview pane.  Really nice.  I tend to have lots of open apps, so usually extend my task bar to have 2 lines of buttons in Vista (and I also make it auto-hide), so this would come in handy.

  • briankel

    FYI, if anybody is interested in installing Windows 7 into a Virtual PC image, I wrote the following blog post which might help you:
    http://blogs.msdn.com/briankel/archive/2009/01/10/installing-the-windows-7-beta-with-virtual-pc-2007-sp1.aspx

    Brian

  • stevo_

    BitFlipper said:
    I like the fact that when I use Windows Explorer and click on folders, it goes in there instantly, instead of that retarded 2 second delay.  I could never understand why it would always first pause when you click on a folder.  It is obviously not a technical reason because Win7 does it instantly.

    I also like the window preview pane.  Really nice.  I tend to have lots of open apps, so usually extend my task bar to have 2 lines of buttons in Vista (and I also make it auto-hide), so this would come in handy.
    Its instant on vista also, I think you might have a problem on your install.

  • Fredrik70

    stevo_ said:
    BitFlipper said:
    *snip*
    Its instant on vista also, I think you might have a problem on your install.
    Although I like the new Taskbar concept, I think it feels very unfished and half-done. There are severe inconsistencies , like if you have one app instance/IE tab running, clicking the icon will maximize and clicking it again will minimize that window (so far, so good). If you have 2 instances/IE tabs open, clicking the program icon will just open up the preview-popup, and it is totally impossible to minimize (not even an option in the right click-menu.
    So, if you want to minimize one or more windows when you have 2 or more windows of the same app running, you will have to click the taskbar, the hover over the correct window, then click, the move your mouse to the minimize button in that window,  then press minimize, and repeat for each window.
    If you want to open a specific window, it is now a 2-step procedure, click or hover, move your mouse to the desired preview, and click.
    I thing that is interface desing gone horribly wrong.

  • BitFlipper

    stevo_ said:
    BitFlipper said:
    *snip*
    Its instant on vista also, I think you might have a problem on your install.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with my Vista install.  Everything else works flawlessly.  OK, the delay is not quite 2 seconds, more like 1 second or so, yet quite noticeable and annoying.  And my computer is fast - I use it as a DAW and it performs flawlessly.

    In Win 7 it feels instant.  There is a dramatic difference between the two.  It is possible that in Win 7 they pre-scan the current folders ahead of time as the user browses, but in all my years of developing Windows applications, I never came across folder traversing code that needed anything close to 1 second to enumerate files and folders inside other folders (unless there are really a lot in there).  On Vista, that delay is constant, whether there are a lot of files and folders in there, or just one, so I believe this is some intentional delay.  I am happy they removed it.  What did they try to do - simulate browsing the internet?

    EDIT:  I just noticed that in Vista, if you traverse the same folders for a second time, it is indeed instantaneous. So that seems to me that it is a caching issue. Still not sure why it would take so long to enumerate files and folders on Vista, especially when there are only a few in the folder.  In Win7 they obviously either fixed that, or they pre-scan the folders.

  • stevo_

    Thing is, I don't get a delay, and I can't remember having one on any machine with Vista..

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