Coffeehouse Thread

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Thank you Mark Shuttleworth and a slight PC/OS update

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  • User profile image
    rjdohnert

    When I did my interview for my Distro I said that Windows 7 would be a great product and boy did I get blasted for it by, not the PC/OS community, but by others who read it.  They called me a traitor, a closet Windows user, and they wished upon me death by Syphillis.  Seriously, they did.  They even called corona_coder a gNewSense developer.  But now Mark Shuttleworth has said it.  In an interview he said Windows 7 is a "great product"  So it looks like even the competition is taking notice.

    I want to publicly thank Mark Shuttleworth for his statements so people wont think Im a f$%^cking crackpot anymore.

    BTW, with PC/OS 2009v2 a great many refinements have come into the mix and its a lot more stable than 2009, I fixed the RAID bug that caused a kernel panic if certain RAID controllers were used upon install and yes, Im looking into ZippyV's UPC problem that he mentioned in another thread.  Trying to see if its more a GNOME problem or a kernel driver problem.

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    PC/OS? Like PC Operating System? ... Huh?

    edit:
    The only "PC OS" I could find was an old Linux Distribution with no website... Although that name sounds like a student OS I played around with some time back, if I remember correctly it was just a custom job running on a virtual machine.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    this has the makings of a great sit com

    Can 2 oss developers get along without driving each other crazy?

    du du du du du du du

    The Oss Couple  Wink

    - corona would be? ..felix? or you Wink

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    Whooohoooo. As far as I know it should be a HAL problem.

    If you need more information post your requests on the bug report.

  • User profile image
    rjdohnert

    ManipUni said:
    PC/OS? Like PC Operating System? ... Huh?

    edit:
    The only "PC OS" I could find was an old Linux Distribution with no website... Although that name sounds like a student OS I played around with some time back, if I remember correctly it was just a custom job running on a virtual machine.

    PC/OS is still very much alive.  The home page redirects to the developer log because Im currently redesigning it.

    http://pcosopensystem.blogspot.com

    @ZippyV, I thought the same thing. 

  • User profile image
    corona_coder

    rjdohnert said:
    ManipUni said:
    *snip*

    PC/OS is still very much alive.  The home page redirects to the developer log because Im currently redesigning it.

    http://pcosopensystem.blogspot.com

    @ZippyV, I thought the same thing. 

    One thing I guess I will never get is the PC/OS fanboyism.  You have numerous fans out there who actually like your distro.  Its weird.  But no matter, PC/OS and Windows 7 will meet the same fate.  Oh and BTW, its UPS.  How you beat out gNewSense in distrowatch I will never know.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    I've had lots of UPC problems back in the Netherlands too; UPC being a cable TV company and Internet provider. Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    Bass

    I find most interesting in the link you posted the claim that Microsoft is giving away Windows XP for free to netbook OEMs. It seems Microsoft will go to all ends (including harming themselves) to keep Linux off of computers. Ubuntu is self-sustaining even being free of charge, but will Windows be? I really really doubt it. This is a dangerous game Microsoft is playing.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    Bass said:
    I find most interesting in the link you posted the claim that Microsoft is giving away Windows XP for free to netbook OEMs. It seems Microsoft will go to all ends (including harming themselves) to keep Linux off of computers. Ubuntu is self-sustaining even being free of charge, but will Windows be? I really really doubt it. This is a dangerous game Microsoft is playing.

    The Register said:

    "We are in an awkward situation now because they are giving away XP in the netbook market - they are literally giving it way to OEMs," he claimed.


    Yeah, the reason the Register used the word claimed is because Shuttleworth has no idea what MS is charging OEMs.
     
    Giving away XP for free doesn't harm them at all, because that is not their current generation OS. What it does do is establish a beach head for the trimmed down OS which they will charge through the nose for.  MS plays the long game, that's why they're successful. Why do you think they turned a blind eye to piracy throughout the eighties? You think that didn't hurt their bottom line?

    Personally, I don't think that Linux is going to make much headway in this market. They should put all their efforts into getting it onto as many phones and set-top boxes as possible. I keep saying this, don't attempt to take Microsoft head on - you will lose! All they need to do is lower prices and you're back to square one. Attack from the flank; that is where the company is weakest because it suffers from terminal tunnel vision. It really cannot see anything beyond the desktop.


  • User profile image
    Bass

    Ray7 said:
    Bass said:
    *snip*


    Yeah, the reason the Register used the word claimed is because Shuttleworth has no idea what MS is charging OEMs.
     
    Giving away XP for free doesn't harm them at all, because that is not their current generation OS. What it does do is establish a beach head for the trimmed down OS which they will charge through the nose for.  MS plays the long game, that's why they're successful. Why do you think they turned a blind eye to piracy throughout the eighties? You think that didn't hurt their bottom line?

    Personally, I don't think that Linux is going to make much headway in this market. They should put all their efforts into getting it onto as many phones and set-top boxes as possible. I keep saying this, don't attempt to take Microsoft head on - you will lose! All they need to do is lower prices and you're back to square one. Attack from the flank; that is where the company is weakest because it suffers from terminal tunnel vision. It really cannot see anything beyond the desktop.


    Netbooks ARE the surprise attack. No time in history has Linux desktop had such broad adoption, and it's all thanks to the netbooks. In fact netbooks are a market that started with Linux, the first Asus EEEs were Linux only. Linux was chosen because it can run on low powered hardware and it lacks license fees, both critical to maintaining the low price of netbooks. Microsoft had to come running to Asus, not the other way around.

    It's Microsoft that's trying to catch up here, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did give Windows XP away for free to try to dominate netbooks like they do other PCs. Seeing how netbooks are very tight margined, I have no reason to doubt Shuttleworth on this. Even a free Windows might offer Microsoft some respite, but it's not going to stop Linux on the netbook by any means.

    Freescale is going to put out ARM netbooks are coming in April, ~$200, running Ubuntu most likely. This will be huge. And Microsoft could pay Freescale $100 per install for all it matters, it wouldn't do any good WinNT doesn't run on ARM.

    Lets just see if Microsoft will have an ARM port of Windows 7, and somehow get all their ISVs to make ARM ports, while justifying license fees. I don't see it happening. Good luck anyway! But anyway Ubuntu already fully runs on ARM - all software inclusive.

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    Bass said:
    Ray7 said:
    *snip*
    Netbooks ARE the surprise attack. No time in history has Linux desktop had such broad adoption, and it's all thanks to the netbooks. In fact netbooks are a market that started with Linux, the first Asus EEEs were Linux only. Linux was chosen because it can run on low powered hardware and it lacks license fees, both critical to maintaining the low price of netbooks. Microsoft had to come running to Asus, not the other way around.

    It's Microsoft that's trying to catch up here, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did give Windows XP away for free to try to dominate netbooks like they do other PCs. Seeing how netbooks are very tight margined, I have no reason to doubt Shuttleworth on this. Even a free Windows might offer Microsoft some respite, but it's not going to stop Linux on the netbook by any means.

    Freescale is going to put out ARM netbooks are coming in April, ~$200, running Ubuntu most likely. This will be huge. And Microsoft could pay Freescale $100 per install for all it matters, it wouldn't do any good WinNT doesn't run on ARM.

    Lets just see if Microsoft will have an ARM port of Windows 7, and somehow get all their ISVs to make ARM ports, while justifying license fees. I don't see it happening. Good luck anyway! But anyway Ubuntu already fully runs on ARM - all software inclusive.

    Do you really think that Linux created the netbook market? Wasn't it rather that the netbook market just needed a free and cheap OS?

  • User profile image
    Bass

    littleguru said:
    Bass said:
    *snip*

    Do you really think that Linux created the netbook market? Wasn't it rather that the netbook market just needed a free and cheap OS?

    Well yeah that's probably better description. I clarified my original post.

    I would argue that MIT to be exact made conditions possible for a netbook. I really think the OLPC showed there is serious demand for small, inexpensive computers which can surf the Internet. And Asus saw it. I would argue that the OLPC while being mostly a failure, "inspired" the EEE PCs which turned out to be huge success. Linux was chosen probably because OLPC choose it too, but probably also because using Linux kept costs down at let them meet their $299 pricepoint. Again, these computers are explicitly designed to be kind of gateways to the Internet, and there is no way you can tell me Windows has any advantage here.

    Netbooks are also interesting in the fact that the OEMs are actually spending considerable effort to customize the user interface on their machines. Like HP and the such actually hired software engineers to help write their Linux-based netbook OS. This is almost unheard of anymore except for a company like Apple. We might see much more vertical integration from OEMs in the future. Really I believe if Windows marketshare breaks down it won't be by one operating system but a myriad of different ones coming from the OEMs themselves.

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    Bass said:
    littleguru said:
    *snip*
    Well yeah that's probably better description. I clarified my original post.

    I would argue that MIT to be exact made conditions possible for a netbook. I really think the OLPC showed there is serious demand for small, inexpensive computers which can surf the Internet. And Asus saw it. I would argue that the OLPC while being mostly a failure, "inspired" the EEE PCs which turned out to be huge success. Linux was chosen probably because OLPC choose it too, but probably also because using Linux kept costs down at let them meet their $299 pricepoint. Again, these computers are explicitly designed to be kind of gateways to the Internet, and there is no way you can tell me Windows has any advantage here.

    Netbooks are also interesting in the fact that the OEMs are actually spending considerable effort to customize the user interface on their machines. Like HP and the such actually hired software engineers to help write their Linux-based netbook OS. This is almost unheard of anymore except for a company like Apple. We might see much more vertical integration from OEMs in the future. Really I believe if Windows marketshare breaks down it won't be by one operating system but a myriad of different ones coming from the OEMs themselves.
    I don't know if that has anything to do with the OLPC or if the netbook is simply the next step in the evolution...

  • User profile image
    Bass

    littleguru said:
    Bass said:
    *snip*
    I don't know if that has anything to do with the OLPC or if the netbook is simply the next step in the evolution...
    Well I think the OLPC was the "first" netbook in a way, although it wasn't for sale. It's clear to me that the EEE PC was inspired by it.

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    Bass said:
    littleguru said:
    *snip*
    Well I think the OLPC was the "first" netbook in a way, although it wasn't for sale. It's clear to me that the EEE PC was inspired by it.

    Well... it's clear to you Wink As long as there's no trustable reference it is not clear to me. The netbook just looks like a smaller notebook and not like an OLPC.

  • User profile image
    Bass

    littleguru said:
    Bass said:
    *snip*

    Well... it's clear to you Wink As long as there's no trustable reference it is not clear to me. The netbook just looks like a smaller notebook and not like an OLPC.

    Well you are free to your opinion. Smiley

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    Bass said:
    littleguru said:
    *snip*
    Well you are free to your opinion. Smiley
    And you to yours Smiley

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    Bass said:
    Ray7 said:
    *snip*
    Netbooks ARE the surprise attack. No time in history has Linux desktop had such broad adoption, and it's all thanks to the netbooks. In fact netbooks are a market that started with Linux, the first Asus EEEs were Linux only. Linux was chosen because it can run on low powered hardware and it lacks license fees, both critical to maintaining the low price of netbooks. Microsoft had to come running to Asus, not the other way around.

    It's Microsoft that's trying to catch up here, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did give Windows XP away for free to try to dominate netbooks like they do other PCs. Seeing how netbooks are very tight margined, I have no reason to doubt Shuttleworth on this. Even a free Windows might offer Microsoft some respite, but it's not going to stop Linux on the netbook by any means.

    Freescale is going to put out ARM netbooks are coming in April, ~$200, running Ubuntu most likely. This will be huge. And Microsoft could pay Freescale $100 per install for all it matters, it wouldn't do any good WinNT doesn't run on ARM.

    Lets just see if Microsoft will have an ARM port of Windows 7, and somehow get all their ISVs to make ARM ports, while justifying license fees. I don't see it happening. Good luck anyway! But anyway Ubuntu already fully runs on ARM - all software inclusive.
    Nope.  Netbooks are a mistake.  For Linux they're a temporary relief at best.  The reasons why Windows doesn't run well on Netbooks will be solved by Windows7 and once MS drops the price for Netbook installs, then we will be back to square one. This is exactly the same mistake that they make time after time, and I think we'll see it again with home servers now that Microsoft seems to have a pretty good solution that beats any Linux based system for ease of use and versatility.

    I would like to see a lot more effort in small, dedicated devices because that's where the future is, and that's where MS is weakest. I'd like to see the community get behind the Pre, but of course they won't because someone will come up with one little reason why it doesn't comform to the Stallman dream, and they'll pack their toys and go home. Might not be a bad thing though because I think the Pre needs developers who are more consumer focussed than your typical Linux developer.

    Anyway, netbooks are just laptops with bits missing, and with everyone bar Apple reducing laptop prices, I don't think they're a particularly good long term bet.



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