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Windows 7 SKU's announced - MS learned nothing from Vista mess...

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  • User profile image
    OrigamiCar

    Seems Microsoft have announced which different SKU's Windows 7 will have:
    http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/03/windows-7-skus-announced-yes-your-worst-nightmare-has-come-to/

    Looks like home basic is going to be only for emerging markets (good), but for crying out loud, STILL no remote desktop with the home skus??
    So, once again, one of the main compelling reasons to have a Windows Home server in the house (the ability to remote into any desktop on the home network from outside) still falters because the home SKU's don't have the very thing that WHS needs to perform this function.. Most 'normal' users don't run the pro or ultimate SKU's of Vista/Win 7, they stick with the home OS that Dell puts on the machine.

    Do MS's teams not talk to each other or something? Or is the WHS team going to address this?

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    I think it got better. Starter and Home Basic are to forget. What's left is Home Premium, Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate. The only thing they shold have done is to put Professional and Enterprise together to Business.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    At least the SKUs are supersets of each other now. And they're supposed to make the edition upgrade process easier.

    But yeah, that's lame. I remember the same issue with those ill fated "Mira" wireless display pads; they were targeted at home use but required XP Pro. Stupid.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    littleguru said:

    I think it got better. Starter and Home Basic are to forget. What's left is Home Premium, Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate. The only thing they shold have done is to put Professional and Enterprise together to Business.

    But then you wouldn't have extra features to entice people into volume license aggreements.

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    One comment on Engadget said it right:

    I don't see why people complain about the different versions. The only version that consumers need to know about is Home Premium.

    If you're the sort of person who needs the extra features in the Pro, Enterprise, or Ultimate versions, you're smart enough to understand the distinctions. Everyone else just needs Home Premium.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    I agree with the sentiment littleguru posted, but yeah, the lack of remote desktop in HOME premium really makes a large part of HOME server useless.

  • User profile image
    OrigamiCar

    littleguru said:
    One comment on Engadget said it right:

    *snip*
    Sorry, just to be clear - my complaint is not that there's lots of versions - realistically, Dells of this world will offer only Home Premium on the home sku's with windows 7, unlike now where on some machines it's Home basic, some Home Premium and others have a choice.
    I also do like how each SKU is a superset of the previous one.

    My big complaint is that Home Premium does not come with Remote Desktop, which is absolutely unbelievable when you think that Windows Home Server is SPECIFICALLY aimed at home use, but one of its major features - remoting in to any desktop, isn't going to work with the home version of Win7, just like it doesn't work with Vista Home today.
    So, to realise the full potential of Windows HOME server, you've got to use an OS that isn't the HOME version. Much as I dislike Apple, they wouldn't screw up this royally...
    I just wish Microsoft groups would talk to each other more and think of the bigger picture.

    Hopefully, as I say, the WHS guys will address this somehow - either with an update that gets Remote desktop working if you have WHS, or maybe the next version of WHS software will do something more amazing.

  • User profile image
    OrigamiCar

    DCMonkey said:

    At least the SKUs are supersets of each other now. And they're supposed to make the edition upgrade process easier.

    But yeah, that's lame. I remember the same issue with those ill fated "Mira" wireless display pads; they were targeted at home use but required XP Pro. Stupid.

    Heh - I still have one of those Mira devices in my basement somewhere - bought it 90% off from Viewsonic after Microsoft announced they were dropping all support for them. loved it at the time and if I could find a way to upgrade the wireless to 802.11n, I'd prbably be using it still! Smiley
    Great technology idea that was marred by the high cost at the time.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    I found something interesting through the related link on that page.

    MS has been putting XP on Netbooks and charging OEMs less for it. Everyone's been wondering how much they will charge for Windows 7 when it ships on Netbooks and whether there will be a special Netbook Edition. Well, these SKUs don't mention such an edition, but I did see this:

    "These engineering investments allow small notebook PCs to run any version of Windows 7, and allow customers complete flexibility to purchase a system which meets their needs. For OEMs that build lower-cost small notebook PCs, Windows 7 Starter will now be available in developed markets. For the most enhanced, full-functioning Windows experience on small notebook PCs, however, consumers will want to go with Windows 7 Home Premium, which lets you get the most out of your digital media and easily connect with other PCs."

    To me, that says that you'll either be paying the full OEM price for Windows on a netbook (passed on to you by the OEM) or you'll be stuck with the crippled Starter edition.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    DCMonkey said:
    I found something interesting through the related link on that page.

    MS has been putting XP on Netbooks and charging OEMs less for it. Everyone's been wondering how much they will charge for Windows 7 when it ships on Netbooks and whether there will be a special Netbook Edition. Well, these SKUs don't mention such an edition, but I did see this:

    "These engineering investments allow small notebook PCs to run any version of Windows 7, and allow customers complete flexibility to purchase a system which meets their needs. For OEMs that build lower-cost small notebook PCs, Windows 7 Starter will now be available in developed markets. For the most enhanced, full-functioning Windows experience on small notebook PCs, however, consumers will want to go with Windows 7 Home Premium, which lets you get the most out of your digital media and easily connect with other PCs."

    To me, that says that you'll either be paying the full OEM price for Windows on a netbook (passed on to you by the OEM) or you'll be stuck with the crippled Starter edition.
    The link I referred to in my previous post (because c9 won't save my edit to that post)
    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2009/feb09/02-03NetbooksQA.mspx


  • User profile image
    PhreePhlyer

    >>So, once again, one of the main compelling reasons to have a Windows Home server in the house (the ability to remote into any desktop on the home network from outside) still falters because the home SKU's don't have the very thing that WHS needs to perform this function.<<

    The home version have the RDP protocol, just not the front end.  I can access my WHS server with Vista Home premium, now.  I just use my browser and connect to my server.

    I think MS did a great job with these differentiations.  Basically there are only two choices for the consumer, Home or Pro.  How easy is that?  Vista was screwed-up in that Home Premium and Business were not sub-setted correctly, so if you got one, the other had missing elements.  In essesance you were forced into Ultimate.  Now, Ultimate won't be marketted and you will only see Home or Pro provided by the Dells and HPs of the world.  Ultimate is basically a single user Enterprise and won't be needed by 95% of the market.

    It appears MS has listened and made good choices in the SKUs.

  • User profile image
    OrigamiCar

    PhreePhlyer said:
    >>So, once again, one of the main compelling reasons to have a Windows Home server in the house (the ability to remote into any desktop on the home network from outside) still falters because the home SKU's don't have the very thing that WHS needs to perform this function.<<

    The home version have the RDP protocol, just not the front end.  I can access my WHS server with Vista Home premium, now.  I just use my browser and connect to my server.

    I think MS did a great job with these differentiations.  Basically there are only two choices for the consumer, Home or Pro.  How easy is that?  Vista was screwed-up in that Home Premium and Business were not sub-setted correctly, so if you got one, the other had missing elements.  In essesance you were forced into Ultimate.  Now, Ultimate won't be marketted and you will only see Home or Pro provided by the Dells and HPs of the world.  Ultimate is basically a single user Enterprise and won't be needed by 95% of the market.

    It appears MS has listened and made good choices in the SKUs.

    Hi PhreePhlyer

    >>The home version have the RDP protocol, just not the front end. 
    >>I can access my WHS server with Vista Home premium, now.  I just use my browser and connect to my server.

    Has that changed recently? Last time I logged in from outside the network, the browser app would only allow me to connect to my machines that were running Vista Pro, not the Vista home machines. Is this something that powerpack 1 for WHS changed?

    I upgraded my last Vista Home OS machine to Vista Ultimate a few months ago, so I can't check it out, but if WHS is allowing remote connections to Home SKU's via the WHS website, then that's great news!

  • User profile image
    cheong

    I don't really understand the argument about WHS.

    Sure, Home versions do not have RDP servers, but you can readily download and install RDP clients from download.microsoft.com , and actually I think the RDP client is also available in the system32 folder of WHS (like in Win2003), so what's the problem?

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  • User profile image
    fknight

    cheong said:
    I don't really understand the argument about WHS.

    Sure, Home versions do not have RDP servers, but you can readily download and install RDP clients from download.microsoft.com , and actually I think the RDP client is also available in the system32 folder of WHS (like in Win2003), so what's the problem?

    The Home editions do not have the Remote Desktop server component.  This means that if your home computer is running Home Basic or Home Premium, you cannot control it remotely.  There is no download that can be installed in Vista Home editions to enable this functionality. 

    Windows Home Server has functionality which allows you to connect to your Windows Home Server's web page from outside your home, and use it to remote control a computer that is in your home.  If those computers are Home Basic or Home Premium, then this Windows Home Server feature is completely useless.

    Yet both the Vista Home SKUs and Windows Home Server are targetted to the same users.

    In other words, when they added the capability to WHS to act as a gateway to remote control your home computers, no one bothered to tell the WHS people that this won't work because the same users they are targetting with this product have an operating system completely incapable of hosting RDP sessions.

  • User profile image
    Lizard​Rumsfeld

    fknight said:
    cheong said:
    *snip*

    The Home editions do not have the Remote Desktop server component.  This means that if your home computer is running Home Basic or Home Premium, you cannot control it remotely.  There is no download that can be installed in Vista Home editions to enable this functionality. 

    Windows Home Server has functionality which allows you to connect to your Windows Home Server's web page from outside your home, and use it to remote control a computer that is in your home.  If those computers are Home Basic or Home Premium, then this Windows Home Server feature is completely useless.

    Yet both the Vista Home SKUs and Windows Home Server are targetted to the same users.

    In other words, when they added the capability to WHS to act as a gateway to remote control your home computers, no one bothered to tell the WHS people that this won't work because the same users they are targetting with this product have an operating system completely incapable of hosting RDP sessions.

    Anyone expecting one SKU was deluded, frankly.  This is a good compromise - Ultimate is basically (well, it IS) Enterprise available at retail, that's all.  A tiny percentage of users will need it, and I doubt you'll see it on most store shelves.

    That leaves 2 - home premium and Professional, like XP but slightly better in that Pro has all the features of home (such as media center), which was a huge gripe with me.  Home premium is rumoured to have image-based backup as well as mobility center now too which used to be only available in the business version.  The other versions are for developing markets (basic) or one cheap mid devices and very low-end notebooks (starter) than you can't purchase off the shelf anyways, hopefully they won't force Starter on most netbooks as the beta of 7 Ultimate runs just fine on my 1 gig Acer.  I think starter is mean to head off really low-end netbook devices that were looking at Android or the myriad of netbook-oriented Linux OS's or ones targetted to the notebooks for developing nations.

    One item that I'd love to see on Home Premium though - PREVIOUS VERIONS.  Come on MS, it's an awesome marketing avenue as well - no other OS has anything like it at the moment, and home users could easily take advantage of it.  I've posted the advertising scenarios that could be done with it before, an ad showing a busy Mom working on a letter only to have junior sneak up behind her when she gets distracted and answers the phone, starts pounding on the keyboard and overwrites her long document with a bunch of garbage - OH NOES!  Ah, previous versions to the rescue - bingo. Smiley

  • User profile image
    Bas

    cheong said:
    I don't really understand the argument about WHS.

    Sure, Home versions do not have RDP servers, but you can readily download and install RDP clients from download.microsoft.com , and actually I think the RDP client is also available in the system32 folder of WHS (like in Win2003), so what's the problem?
    Sure, Home versions do not have RDP servers, but you can readily download and install RDP clients from download.microsoft.com , and actually I think the RDP client is also available in the system32 folder of WHS (like in Win2003), so what's the problem?


    The problem is that you need the RDP server, not the client, to connect to a PC, which is a major component of WHS. If I set up my home environment with all Home SKU's and an expensive Windows Home Server, I can't use one of the components that were advertised. So I basically paid for something I can't use in the environment it was intended for.

    That's the problem.


    Anyway, I have no idea what the effects or requirements of installing RDP server are, but wouldn't it make sense if the home server connector software also acted as an RDP server? I mean, it's installed on all the clients anyway.


    In other words, when they added the capability to WHS to act as a gateway to remote control your home computers, no one bothered to tell the WHS people that this won't work because the same users they are targetting with this product have an operating system completely incapable of hosting RDP sessions.


    Actually, I and many others in the beta bothered to tell the WHS people that during the beta. Nothing was done with it. I don't even remember what the reply from the team was.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    I can't believe the fuss that is generating, the only difference to the Vista SKU's is that Media Center functionality has been added to "Business" and it's been renamed Professional.

    But yes, still omiting Remote Desktop from Home Premium makes Windows Home Server look stupid. How about a little joined-up thinking Microsoft?

  • User profile image
    Bas

    AndyC said:
    I can't believe the fuss that is generating, the only difference to the Vista SKU's is that Media Center functionality has been added to "Business" and it's been renamed Professional.

    But yes, still omiting Remote Desktop from Home Premium makes Windows Home Server look stupid. How about a little joined-up thinking Microsoft?
    Same here. I really don't get the problem. If you're a home user, you use Home Premium. If you're knowledgable enough to need the things offered in professional, you're smart enough to figure out the difference between  Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate.

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