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Microsoft what they are doing right.

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  • User profile image
    peterwillcn

    I think Microsoft owns the world's most excellent technical and creative talent and money. . Why not put the world's most valuable software technology wealth, to contribute to mankind. . To the open-source software deserves the same respect for the people go. . I prefer to use eclipse plug-ins to develop C + + / C # ... want to Eclipse.org / Apache share the same technical feast, so that everyone can be happy at encoding. . .

  • User profile image
    pierlove

    Open Source has its place, and each of us is different with our own prefs. Respect is earned not fundamentally deserved. When you earn it then you deserve it.

    That said. Why do you think that M$ isn't "contributing" to the good of mankind. I mean have you ever heard Mr. Gates speak? Do you understand the magnitude of the impact that they have already had on humanity? medicine? finance? global ecomonics? This isn't even considering the future.

    If Microsoft doesn't produce any (thats zerro) innovation ever again, it will be difficult to repeat that contribution. It's on the level of the contributions of Tom.

    I suggest that its a fundamental impossibility for them not to continue innovation. I have to say based on a real simple idea that innovation is imminent.

    Respectfully,

    James

  • User profile image
    Maddus Mattus

    Errr,... Dude,...

    Open source is not for the good of mankind,...

    It's a way to develop code under a certain license.

    So how is open source going to save the world?

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    dotnetisv said:
    Open Source has its place, and each of us is different with our own prefs. Respect is earned not fundamentally deserved. When you earn it then you deserve it.

    That said. Why do you think that M$ isn't "contributing" to the good of mankind. I mean have you ever heard Mr. Gates speak? Do you understand the magnitude of the impact that they have already had on humanity? medicine? finance? global ecomonics? This isn't even considering the future.

    If Microsoft doesn't produce any (thats zerro) innovation ever again, it will be difficult to repeat that contribution. It's on the level of the contributions of Tom.

    I suggest that its a fundamental impossibility for them not to continue innovation. I have to say based on a real simple idea that innovation is imminent.

    Respectfully,

    James
    Wow.  Something's wrong in ths comment.  You are obviously defending Microsoft here, yet you used the M$ pejorative.  WTF?

  • User profile image
    peterwillcn

    dotnetisv said:
    Open Source has its place, and each of us is different with our own prefs. Respect is earned not fundamentally deserved. When you earn it then you deserve it.

    That said. Why do you think that M$ isn't "contributing" to the good of mankind. I mean have you ever heard Mr. Gates speak? Do you understand the magnitude of the impact that they have already had on humanity? medicine? finance? global ecomonics? This isn't even considering the future.

    If Microsoft doesn't produce any (thats zerro) innovation ever again, it will be difficult to repeat that contribution. It's on the level of the contributions of Tom.

    I suggest that its a fundamental impossibility for them not to continue innovation. I have to say based on a real simple idea that innovation is imminent.

    Respectfully,

    James
    You seem to misunderstand my point. What I mean is whether Microsoft can produce innovation for the open source, which is also a great contribution, of course, for the whole world. For example, makeing C/C++/C#plug-ins for eclips and so on. This gives us programmers more choices. From the long run, this kind of contribution will advance the technology within Microsoft.

  • User profile image
    pierlove

    wkempf said:
    dotnetisv said:
    *snip*
    Wow.  Something's wrong in ths comment.  You are obviously defending Microsoft here, yet you used the M$ pejorative.  WTF?

    I didn't know that using "M$" was always a negative thing...  sorry. Is that the general case?  I certainly didn't intend any negative connotation. -James

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    dotnetisv said:
    wkempf said:
    *snip*

    I didn't know that using "M$" was always a negative thing...  sorry. Is that the general case?  I certainly didn't intend any negative connotation. -James


     
    Smiley

  • User profile image
    pierlove

    Maddus Mattus said:

    Errr,... Dude,...

    Open source is not for the good of mankind,...

    It's a way to develop code under a certain license.

    So how is open source going to save the world?

    Actually, it is my opinion that by and large the responsibilty for projects like eclipse to support languages and frameworks lie with the respective communities invested there. I think Microsoft would be diluting current investments in Visual Studio to develop support for obviously (at least from others perspective) competing IDE's.

    imho, you should consider using Visual Studio, it really is superior to exclipse and definately more stable.

    -James

  • User profile image
    pierlove

    PaoloM said:
    dotnetisv said:
    *snip*

     
    Smiley

    I am enjoying my coffee and quiety wondering why in a capitalist society, people percieve another's success as a reflection of thier own failure when in fact they would enjoy being in that other persons position?

    (That is, they are generally speaking trying to succeed themselves.)

    Also I guess I should say that "M$" to me is attractive and speaks to success, not domination. And I didn't really see it in a negative light until now. Thanks for making me think.

    -James

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Maddus Mattus said:

    Errr,... Dude,...

    Open source is not for the good of mankind,...

    It's a way to develop code under a certain license.

    So how is open source going to save the world?

    Open source is "for the good of mankind" since the code has been made available for anyone (i.e. mankind) to benefit from (for non-capitalist interpretations of "benefit") without needing to do anything up-front.

    Open source software won't save the world directly, it's a means to an end. Why should non-profit organisations need to spend the money on commercial software licenses (e.g. Windows and Office) when they can use Linux and OOo, and customize the software as they need as time goes on.

  • User profile image
    Bass

    I think Microsoft is actually funding the C# support in Eclipse.

  • User profile image
    pierlove

    Bass said:
    I think Microsoft is actually funding the C# support in Eclipse.
    Out of curiosity, where did you get that idea? What is your source?

    Thanks,

    -James

  • User profile image
    TommyCarlier

    dotnetisv said:
    Bass said:
    *snip*
    Out of curiosity, where did you get that idea? What is your source?

    Thanks,

    -James
    The Internets Wink

  • User profile image
    peterwillcn

    dotnetisv said:
    Bass said:
    *snip*
    Out of curiosity, where did you get that idea? What is your source?

    Thanks,

    -James
                                http://www.codeplex.com/          http://www.codeproject.com/      http://sourceforge.net/
    Given the different purpose of product development, Microsoft and open source community will never come to the same path, but does not exclude the possibility of cooperation the two sides have. However, let us find it strange that Microsoft has always been the attitude of open source has always been for the uncertain, sometimes indifferent, sometimes high-profile criticism and take the initiative to show good time.

        At present, the only thing we can be sure that Microsoft is no longer as open source as a scourge, and even step by step, Microsoft also picked up the pace of the field into the open source community, such as Microsoft to set up open-source laboratory, released Windows and . NET Framework source code of the part, and the establishment of open-source SourceForge website similar to CodePlex. Analysis of motives, industry experts have pointed out that Microsoft's real concern is not a question of whether the company is open-source nature, but whether the company can help sales of Microsoft's platform products. It laid bare the secret! Are above the commercial interests above all.

         Our view of Microsoft's attitude has been to live in harmony with the open sign. Well, Microsoft for open source projects, especially for open source. NET project exactly how to maintain the attitude? Recently, Redmond Developer News editor Michael Desmond raised such a doubt, that is: open source. NET project by Microsoft's cold shoulder?

         Redmond in the article referred to in June of last year, an exclusive interview with Jeff Atwood. Jeff is Coding Horror Developer Blog of the founder, he was. NET areas of contribution to open source projects, in addition to writing blog outside, but also to create its own open source project Stackoverflow.com.

         Jeff at Coding Horror Developer Blog once on commitments, as part of advertising revenue will be donated back to the open source community. Recently, Jeff realized that his commitment to 5000 U.S. dollars in prize money awarded to the ScrewTurn Wiki project open source developers Dario Solera. ScrewTurn Wiki is a Wiki engine based on ASP.NET,. In fact, the incentives just shows the attitude of Jeff, that is, those who thank. NET open source development to make outstanding contributions to the developers.

         This is a key measure for the purpose of Jeff. Jeff believes that "open-source projects at Microsoft's system to be regarded as a second-class citizens." He said: "Microsoft is wrong to reduce the open-source projects, and in fact these open source projects. NET contribution to the world." He believes that Microsoft as a provider of development tools, and its fate depends on whether the company has always been willing to change their approach.

         Jeff's controversial opinion. In fact, in the world. NET developers, there are a lot of use of a variety of open source tools such as DotNetNuke, MbUnit, NAnt, NHibernate and ZedGraph. And developers to use. NET also a lot of open source tools, listed above are only the tip of the iceberg. Microsoft is also actively involved in and respond with the open source community (CodePlex, IronPython and IronRuby project, Mono development, etc.).

         Then, open source. NET project developers why Microsoft did not feel effective in their support?

         Indeed, while Microsoft development tools in their own part in the integration of excellent open source. NET tools, but after all these tools are few and far between. In addition, although the open-source projects, Microsoft has provided some support, but the support of its commercial products with Microsoft's huge investment in it is a drop in the bucket.

        A lot of time on the surface of Microsoft's open source community support, this is actually a wine is not Drunk. For example, Microsoft released early in April in the open-source compatible with XAML / WPF norms permit the use of these norms open-source projects. This may be good that Microsoft's move, the open source development has played a certain role, but it represents the company behind it can make use of open source Dongfeng to further promote the WPF and XAML.

         Microsoft to open source. NET project has indeed provided some support, but a lot of the time, Microsoft is its strong position on open source projects to give a heavy blow. For example, Microsoft launched last year to the MVC Framework and LINQ, it does for. NET developers have brought great convenience. However, the resulting deep impact on the earth Castel MVC Framework as well as the development of NHibernate. Clearly, the integration in Visual Studio, and as a. NET Framework as part of the MVC Framework and LINQ to normal. NET developers, the more attractive. However, in terms of the open source community, it is a great defeat.

        Obviously, Michael Desmond made the so-called "open source. NET project encountered snubbed Microsoft's" point of view is not tenable. Microsoft can not ignore the power of the open source community. Instead, Microsoft will be extremely concerned about the development of the open source community, once aware of a commercial value of open source projects, or feel that it is a threat to Microsoft products, Microsoft is the first beast that will take the initiative, or the annexation of encroachment, or to create a sharp weapon independent and rival, and then the market share of plunder. This is Microsoft's usual tricks, because Microsoft in the face of commercial competition, will never sit.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    peterwillcn said:
    dotnetisv said:
    *snip*
                                http://www.codeplex.com/          http://www.codeproject.com/      http://sourceforge.net/
    Given the different purpose of product development, Microsoft and open source community will never come to the same path, but does not exclude the possibility of cooperation the two sides have. However, let us find it strange that Microsoft has always been the attitude of open source has always been for the uncertain, sometimes indifferent, sometimes high-profile criticism and take the initiative to show good time.

        At present, the only thing we can be sure that Microsoft is no longer as open source as a scourge, and even step by step, Microsoft also picked up the pace of the field into the open source community, such as Microsoft to set up open-source laboratory, released Windows and . NET Framework source code of the part, and the establishment of open-source SourceForge website similar to CodePlex. Analysis of motives, industry experts have pointed out that Microsoft's real concern is not a question of whether the company is open-source nature, but whether the company can help sales of Microsoft's platform products. It laid bare the secret! Are above the commercial interests above all.

         Our view of Microsoft's attitude has been to live in harmony with the open sign. Well, Microsoft for open source projects, especially for open source. NET project exactly how to maintain the attitude? Recently, Redmond Developer News editor Michael Desmond raised such a doubt, that is: open source. NET project by Microsoft's cold shoulder?

         Redmond in the article referred to in June of last year, an exclusive interview with Jeff Atwood. Jeff is Coding Horror Developer Blog of the founder, he was. NET areas of contribution to open source projects, in addition to writing blog outside, but also to create its own open source project Stackoverflow.com.

         Jeff at Coding Horror Developer Blog once on commitments, as part of advertising revenue will be donated back to the open source community. Recently, Jeff realized that his commitment to 5000 U.S. dollars in prize money awarded to the ScrewTurn Wiki project open source developers Dario Solera. ScrewTurn Wiki is a Wiki engine based on ASP.NET,. In fact, the incentives just shows the attitude of Jeff, that is, those who thank. NET open source development to make outstanding contributions to the developers.

         This is a key measure for the purpose of Jeff. Jeff believes that "open-source projects at Microsoft's system to be regarded as a second-class citizens." He said: "Microsoft is wrong to reduce the open-source projects, and in fact these open source projects. NET contribution to the world." He believes that Microsoft as a provider of development tools, and its fate depends on whether the company has always been willing to change their approach.

         Jeff's controversial opinion. In fact, in the world. NET developers, there are a lot of use of a variety of open source tools such as DotNetNuke, MbUnit, NAnt, NHibernate and ZedGraph. And developers to use. NET also a lot of open source tools, listed above are only the tip of the iceberg. Microsoft is also actively involved in and respond with the open source community (CodePlex, IronPython and IronRuby project, Mono development, etc.).

         Then, open source. NET project developers why Microsoft did not feel effective in their support?

         Indeed, while Microsoft development tools in their own part in the integration of excellent open source. NET tools, but after all these tools are few and far between. In addition, although the open-source projects, Microsoft has provided some support, but the support of its commercial products with Microsoft's huge investment in it is a drop in the bucket.

        A lot of time on the surface of Microsoft's open source community support, this is actually a wine is not Drunk. For example, Microsoft released early in April in the open-source compatible with XAML / WPF norms permit the use of these norms open-source projects. This may be good that Microsoft's move, the open source development has played a certain role, but it represents the company behind it can make use of open source Dongfeng to further promote the WPF and XAML.

         Microsoft to open source. NET project has indeed provided some support, but a lot of the time, Microsoft is its strong position on open source projects to give a heavy blow. For example, Microsoft launched last year to the MVC Framework and LINQ, it does for. NET developers have brought great convenience. However, the resulting deep impact on the earth Castel MVC Framework as well as the development of NHibernate. Clearly, the integration in Visual Studio, and as a. NET Framework as part of the MVC Framework and LINQ to normal. NET developers, the more attractive. However, in terms of the open source community, it is a great defeat.

        Obviously, Michael Desmond made the so-called "open source. NET project encountered snubbed Microsoft's" point of view is not tenable. Microsoft can not ignore the power of the open source community. Instead, Microsoft will be extremely concerned about the development of the open source community, once aware of a commercial value of open source projects, or feel that it is a threat to Microsoft products, Microsoft is the first beast that will take the initiative, or the annexation of encroachment, or to create a sharp weapon independent and rival, and then the market share of plunder. This is Microsoft's usual tricks, because Microsoft in the face of commercial competition, will never sit.
    I'd disagree. For example, if anything the limitations of the entity framework has caused alternatives such as nHibernate, and to a lesser extent Subsonic to be examined by more developers. MSTest drove adoption of NUnit and XUnit simply because it's nowhere near as flexible.

    And I doubt the existence of the MS source servers and their limited publication of .NET source is a response to open source, more a response to a demand for easier debugging.

    Of course MS's support of open source projects is going to be small, they don't do them as a rule. They've given away MSDN to open source projects, and of course individual employees contribute, either directly or through support and guidance.

    And then there's the MVC project. That's well supported, open and flexible. That's an anomoly really, but it's not an open source defeat, as ASP.NET MVC is open source. So if Castle loses out to it, it's still an Open Source win, in fact if anything because it's an MS supported product it will help drive adoption of an open source framework into the corporate environments.

    But what's Dongfeng?!

  • User profile image
    Maddus Mattus

    W3bbo said:
    Maddus Mattus said:
    *snip*
    Open source is "for the good of mankind" since the code has been made available for anyone (i.e. mankind) to benefit from (for non-capitalist interpretations of "benefit") without needing to do anything up-front.

    Open source software won't save the world directly, it's a means to an end. Why should non-profit organisations need to spend the money on commercial software licenses (e.g. Windows and Office) when they can use Linux and OOo, and customize the software as they need as time goes on.

    Software is for the good of mankind, because it helps us making our life easyer. Provided ofcourse that the software works, with little or no effort.

    If I can view that code that makes up the software is irrelivant, to me.

    The added value is in reusable components. And by reusable I mean, freely reusable. Not like that virus GPL, wich states that even if you use their component your new component is bound to GPL. That's not for the good of mankind.

    That's why I like the Microsoft platform. A good stable platform to develop on, good developer tools, reusable components in the .Net framework and ofcourse the legendairy P&P team providing me with guidance and even more high level components!

  • User profile image
    pierlove

    peterwillcn said:
    dotnetisv said:
    *snip*
                                http://www.codeplex.com/          http://www.codeproject.com/      http://sourceforge.net/
    Given the different purpose of product development, Microsoft and open source community will never come to the same path, but does not exclude the possibility of cooperation the two sides have. However, let us find it strange that Microsoft has always been the attitude of open source has always been for the uncertain, sometimes indifferent, sometimes high-profile criticism and take the initiative to show good time.

        At present, the only thing we can be sure that Microsoft is no longer as open source as a scourge, and even step by step, Microsoft also picked up the pace of the field into the open source community, such as Microsoft to set up open-source laboratory, released Windows and . NET Framework source code of the part, and the establishment of open-source SourceForge website similar to CodePlex. Analysis of motives, industry experts have pointed out that Microsoft's real concern is not a question of whether the company is open-source nature, but whether the company can help sales of Microsoft's platform products. It laid bare the secret! Are above the commercial interests above all.

         Our view of Microsoft's attitude has been to live in harmony with the open sign. Well, Microsoft for open source projects, especially for open source. NET project exactly how to maintain the attitude? Recently, Redmond Developer News editor Michael Desmond raised such a doubt, that is: open source. NET project by Microsoft's cold shoulder?

         Redmond in the article referred to in June of last year, an exclusive interview with Jeff Atwood. Jeff is Coding Horror Developer Blog of the founder, he was. NET areas of contribution to open source projects, in addition to writing blog outside, but also to create its own open source project Stackoverflow.com.

         Jeff at Coding Horror Developer Blog once on commitments, as part of advertising revenue will be donated back to the open source community. Recently, Jeff realized that his commitment to 5000 U.S. dollars in prize money awarded to the ScrewTurn Wiki project open source developers Dario Solera. ScrewTurn Wiki is a Wiki engine based on ASP.NET,. In fact, the incentives just shows the attitude of Jeff, that is, those who thank. NET open source development to make outstanding contributions to the developers.

         This is a key measure for the purpose of Jeff. Jeff believes that "open-source projects at Microsoft's system to be regarded as a second-class citizens." He said: "Microsoft is wrong to reduce the open-source projects, and in fact these open source projects. NET contribution to the world." He believes that Microsoft as a provider of development tools, and its fate depends on whether the company has always been willing to change their approach.

         Jeff's controversial opinion. In fact, in the world. NET developers, there are a lot of use of a variety of open source tools such as DotNetNuke, MbUnit, NAnt, NHibernate and ZedGraph. And developers to use. NET also a lot of open source tools, listed above are only the tip of the iceberg. Microsoft is also actively involved in and respond with the open source community (CodePlex, IronPython and IronRuby project, Mono development, etc.).

         Then, open source. NET project developers why Microsoft did not feel effective in their support?

         Indeed, while Microsoft development tools in their own part in the integration of excellent open source. NET tools, but after all these tools are few and far between. In addition, although the open-source projects, Microsoft has provided some support, but the support of its commercial products with Microsoft's huge investment in it is a drop in the bucket.

        A lot of time on the surface of Microsoft's open source community support, this is actually a wine is not Drunk. For example, Microsoft released early in April in the open-source compatible with XAML / WPF norms permit the use of these norms open-source projects. This may be good that Microsoft's move, the open source development has played a certain role, but it represents the company behind it can make use of open source Dongfeng to further promote the WPF and XAML.

         Microsoft to open source. NET project has indeed provided some support, but a lot of the time, Microsoft is its strong position on open source projects to give a heavy blow. For example, Microsoft launched last year to the MVC Framework and LINQ, it does for. NET developers have brought great convenience. However, the resulting deep impact on the earth Castel MVC Framework as well as the development of NHibernate. Clearly, the integration in Visual Studio, and as a. NET Framework as part of the MVC Framework and LINQ to normal. NET developers, the more attractive. However, in terms of the open source community, it is a great defeat.

        Obviously, Michael Desmond made the so-called "open source. NET project encountered snubbed Microsoft's" point of view is not tenable. Microsoft can not ignore the power of the open source community. Instead, Microsoft will be extremely concerned about the development of the open source community, once aware of a commercial value of open source projects, or feel that it is a threat to Microsoft products, Microsoft is the first beast that will take the initiative, or the annexation of encroachment, or to create a sharp weapon independent and rival, and then the market share of plunder. This is Microsoft's usual tricks, because Microsoft in the face of commercial competition, will never sit.

    Let me be more specific.  My question was for bass.

    BASS: Out of curiosity, where did you get the idea that Microsoft is actually funding the C# support in Eclipse (specifically)?
     What is your source?

    -James

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    dotnetisv said:
    peterwillcn said:
    *snip*

    Let me be more specific.  My question was for bass.

    BASS: Out of curiosity, where did you get the idea that Microsoft is actually funding the C# support in Eclipse (specifically)?
     What is your source?

    -James

    They're certainly funding Silverlight for Eclipse.

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