Coffeehouse Thread

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The next generation of the most annoying explorer bug has been revealed!

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  • User profile image
    Evil SEO

    Were you happy of finding the file you were looking for just by typing the name in the explorer's file list? Well, it looks like you were way too happy and now Microsoft decided to do something about it by making your file searches far more annoying. Windows XP had a statusbar that kept disappearing and Vista never saved the folder settings properly: you didn't expect Windows 7 to ship without something just as annoying, did you?

    Introducing the amazing annoy-as-you-type in Windows 7 explorer: did you type the file name wrong? like WONDOWS instead of WINDOWS on C:\? Did you press the HOME key to reset the file search? WROOONG!! Every time you type the wrong name HOME won't reset the search and you'll keep hearing these nice error beeps until you stop writing, wait some secs and try again.

    Now, I understand that many Microsoft employees have to resort using the on screen keyboard because those pretty Microsoft keyboards miss too many keys but please let somebody who actually uses a keyboard do some testing between the usuals Norton-like UI facelifts that explorer gets for every new version of Windows.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    I'm sorry, but I can't reproduce it in 7000 based on the steps you gave. Could you be more precise?

  • User profile image
    BHpaddock

    I think I see what you mean, but I'm willing to bet you are pretty much the only person in the entire world that's ever used "home" as a way to cancel the type-ahead and restart it.  The type-ahead reset delay is so absolutely tiny anyway, why would you need to "reset" it?  Just stop typing for 200ms.  Hell it probably takes longer to move your hand to the Home key than it does to let the type-ahead timer reset.

  • User profile image
    Evil SEO

    Sven Groot said:
    I'm sorry, but I can't reproduce it in 7000 based on the steps you gave. Could you be more precise?
    Open c:\, type WONDOWS then immediately press the home key and try typing WINDOWS, it will keep beeping like it's not recognizing the keys while on XP and Vista it would point immediately to the WINDOWS folder. It can happen in some other ways but that's the easiest way to reproduce this.

  • User profile image
    androidi

    I do that too, now I haven't tried this on 7 yet but it would seem only Alt Gr and similar keys that are used in typing some characters should work the way home is described to work here. Now I suppose some languages have some kind of character input menu where you might use some form of navigation to find what character to type so some kind of special case (to stop the timer while in the menu) for that could be warranted.

  • User profile image
    Evil SEO

    "I think I see what you mean," actually your post a few seconds ago was saying that you couldn't repeat it no matter how fast you typed but oh well...

    "but I'm willing to bet you are pretty much the only person in the entire world that's ever used "home" as a way to cancel the type-ahead and restart it."

    Yes, I'm the only person in the world that still uses explorer with the keyboard because all the other IT pros avoid it like the plague and prefer directory opus or total commander because they don't crash just after clean windows installs or hang for minutes indexing for the n-th time the same PDF or AVI files. Home has always worked properly to reset find-as-you-type not just on windows but on many other OSes and it still seems to works fine in all the other combo boxes, list boxes and list controls in the OS. Was the removal of support for the HOME key done just for the sake of change or was there any valid reason behind this? The home key is usually on a separated block of keys so I can't really see it being pressed accidentally and knowing that all the other controls in the OS respect it make only the explorer behavior look inconsistent. Also don't think it's just the home key, many people reset with other keys like the arrow keys or clicking with the mouse and they're going to have the same issue.

    You know why you have to use the home key? Because if you search for example WINDOWS and there are other folders with similar names like WINDOWS2, WINDOWS3 and you wait for the reset or use the ESC key (that still resets), if you type windows again it starts from the 2nd result (WINDOWS2): I bet you didn't know that, right? The only proper way to reset the find as you type is to click the first entry with the mouse or use the home key that does the same.

    I'm pretty sure that the people who expected a statusbar to work or folder settings to be saved got the same answer: nobody uses that feature so it must stay broken and maybe someday it will be fixed in the newer OS or with the n-th service pack, kthxbye and thanks for all the fish. Been there, seen that. Just because you do things in a different way it doesn't mean that there aren't people who prefer using shortcuts to get to the same result.

    "The type-ahead reset delay is so absolutely tiny anyway, why would you need to "reset" it?  Just stop typing for 200ms.  Hell it probably takes longer to move your hand to the Home key than it does to let the type-ahead timer reset."

    I really, really don't think the delay is 200ms since it takes more than a second for the reset and if you type any other key thinking you can start typing again and it beeps you have to wait again for the reset. No matter what you think, to anybody who has to work with very large number of files like my websites where I have thousands of files with similar names that start with CORNER_, BG_, BANNER_, IMG_, OMG!_  it's very, very annoying.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    Evil SEO said:
    Sven Groot said:
    *snip*
    Open c:\, type WONDOWS then immediately press the home key and try typing WINDOWS, it will keep beeping like it's not recognizing the keys while on XP and Vista it would point immediately to the WINDOWS folder. It can happen in some other ways but that's the easiest way to reproduce this.
    Sorry, still no repro. I type "wondows" (which ends up selecting windows anyway because it's the only entry with a W), then press home which returns it to the first item in the list, then "windows" which selects windows again. There's no beeping at all.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    Evil SEO said:
    "I think I see what you mean," actually your post a few seconds ago was saying that you couldn't repeat it no matter how fast you typed but oh well...

    "but I'm willing to bet you are pretty much the only person in the entire world that's ever used "home" as a way to cancel the type-ahead and restart it."

    Yes, I'm the only person in the world that still uses explorer with the keyboard because all the other IT pros avoid it like the plague and prefer directory opus or total commander because they don't crash just after clean windows installs or hang for minutes indexing for the n-th time the same PDF or AVI files. Home has always worked properly to reset find-as-you-type not just on windows but on many other OSes and it still seems to works fine in all the other combo boxes, list boxes and list controls in the OS. Was the removal of support for the HOME key done just for the sake of change or was there any valid reason behind this? The home key is usually on a separated block of keys so I can't really see it being pressed accidentally and knowing that all the other controls in the OS respect it make only the explorer behavior look inconsistent. Also don't think it's just the home key, many people reset with other keys like the arrow keys or clicking with the mouse and they're going to have the same issue.

    You know why you have to use the home key? Because if you search for example WINDOWS and there are other folders with similar names like WINDOWS2, WINDOWS3 and you wait for the reset or use the ESC key (that still resets), if you type windows again it starts from the 2nd result (WINDOWS2): I bet you didn't know that, right? The only proper way to reset the find as you type is to click the first entry with the mouse or use the home key that does the same.

    I'm pretty sure that the people who expected a statusbar to work or folder settings to be saved got the same answer: nobody uses that feature so it must stay broken and maybe someday it will be fixed in the newer OS or with the n-th service pack, kthxbye and thanks for all the fish. Been there, seen that. Just because you do things in a different way it doesn't mean that there aren't people who prefer using shortcuts to get to the same result.

    "The type-ahead reset delay is so absolutely tiny anyway, why would you need to "reset" it?  Just stop typing for 200ms.  Hell it probably takes longer to move your hand to the Home key than it does to let the type-ahead timer reset."

    I really, really don't think the delay is 200ms since it takes more than a second for the reset and if you type any other key thinking you can start typing again and it beeps you have to wait again for the reset. No matter what you think, to anybody who has to work with very large number of files like my websites where I have thousands of files with similar names that start with CORNER_, BG_, BANNER_, IMG_, OMG!_  it's very, very annoying.
    I'm pretty sure 200ms is documented somewhere. Oh, and I've been an IT pro and developer all my life and I've never even heard of directory opus, and the only total commander I know of is some crappy file explorer replacement for Windows Mobile that I had installed for all of 30 seconds before I went back to Resco Explorer.

    I've never gotten into replacing the default Windows utilities with every third party replacement I can find. Some of the work better, but all of them have quirks that end up being more annoying than the quirks of the original Windows app.

  • User profile image
    stevo_

    Never even knew you could press home to select the first item anyway- anytime I type something wrong when doing that kinda selection.. I just pause for a second to let it reset and type again.

  • User profile image
    Evil SEO

    Sven Groot said:
    Evil SEO said:
    *snip*
    Sorry, still no repro. I type "wondows" (which ends up selecting windows anyway because it's the only entry with a W), then press home which returns it to the first item in the list, then "windows" which selects windows again. There's no beeping at all.
    It should start beeping from the first wrong character you type. I have already erased my beta disc so I can't verify if it was happening there too but there's a chance it was working properly on the beta.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    Evil SEO said:
    Sven Groot said:
    *snip*
    It should start beeping from the first wrong character you type. I have already erased my beta disc so I can't verify if it was happening there too but there's a chance it was working properly on the beta.
    It doesn't beep at all for me, no matter how much I mash on the keyboard.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    Double post; C9 is really broken again today.

  • User profile image
    BHpaddock

    Sven Groot said:
    Evil SEO said:
    *snip*
    Sorry, still no repro. I type "wondows" (which ends up selecting windows anyway because it's the only entry with a W), then press home which returns it to the first item in the list, then "windows" which selects windows again. There's no beeping at all.

    I repro'd it, but it only happens if you start typing stuff, then press Home, and then press another key really fast.  I can barely do it on my laptop's keyboard because I have to hold the Fn key in order to hit Home.  Even on my desktop the time it takes to move my hand to the Home key is long enough for the type ahead to reset.

    The behavior changed because the list view control used in the Win7 Explorer is a brand new control written from scratch.  I'm guessing the old behavior was just a quirk of the design, but I wasn't around then, so maybe it was intentional.  I'll mention it to the people who own that new control, but unfortunately it's a bit late to change anything that doesn't impact a significant number of people (and that has an easy workaround... just hit Home and then wait half a second or so until it resets).

     

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