Coffeehouse Thread

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  • User profile image
    KevinB

    AndyC said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*

    OEM built machines are often better than home-built counterparts, predominantly because OEMs understand how to balance all the various components to get better overall performance. 64-bit probably helps a bit, but not usually by a significant amount.

    This is probably true on the hardware side, and definitely in the performance vs. price ratio in my experience. But in terms of software, no way, all the crap that is installed on PC's nowadays (to keep cost of hardware down presumably) is crazy. First thing I do when I get a machine from an OEM is wipe it, much much faster without all the stuff they install.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    KevinB said:
    AndyC said:
    *snip*

    This is probably true on the hardware side, and definitely in the performance vs. price ratio in my experience. But in terms of software, no way, all the crap that is installed on PC's nowadays (to keep cost of hardware down presumably) is crazy. First thing I do when I get a machine from an OEM is wipe it, much much faster without all the stuff they install.

    Oh dear god yes, OEM Windows installs are often a complete mess of useless junk. I was referring purely to the choice of hardware inside. Smiley

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    AndyC said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*

    OEM built machines are often better than home-built counterparts, predominantly because OEMs understand how to balance all the various components to get better overall performance. 64-bit probably helps a bit, but not usually by a significant amount.

    Uh...excuse me?

    If someone's doing a "home built" it means they're after components that are more suited to their requirements; there really don't exist many bottlenecks and in my experience OEMs deliver worse performance/currency than DIY boxes because they build for the 80% case which doesn't need "overall performance": they're engineered to reduce support costs and keep manufacturing costs down. I may remind you that many OEMs were guilty of still using Intels not-good-enough-for-Vista IGP chipsets well into 2008 whereas everyone who builds their own were using cheap 'n' cheerful (yet in comparison, blazingly fast) entry-level GeForce cards.

    Right now I'm using a box I built by myself, Q9450 with a GTX280 that cost me significantly less than a lesser machine had I bought it from any of the major OEMs (or even Alienware).

  • User profile image
    Minh

    W3bbo said:
    AndyC said:
    *snip*

    Uh...excuse me?

    If someone's doing a "home built" it means they're after components that are more suited to their requirements; there really don't exist many bottlenecks and in my experience OEMs deliver worse performance/currency than DIY boxes because they build for the 80% case which doesn't need "overall performance": they're engineered to reduce support costs and keep manufacturing costs down. I may remind you that many OEMs were guilty of still using Intels not-good-enough-for-Vista IGP chipsets well into 2008 whereas everyone who builds their own were using cheap 'n' cheerful (yet in comparison, blazingly fast) entry-level GeForce cards.

    Right now I'm using a box I built by myself, Q9450 with a GTX280 that cost me significantly less than a lesser machine had I bought it from any of the major OEMs (or even Alienware).

    I don't know about this... Because of simple volume, OEMs just have more buying power than any individual. Dollar-for-dollar, you simply cannot beat the hardware cost of an OEM. I recently bought a Dell desktop for $350... and there was just no way I could spend that cash for that hardware...

    And OEMs just can put together better components than me... I can guess if a certain motherboard would play well with a certain video card... If I'm wrong, I'm out a 1/3 of the cost of the machine.

  • User profile image
    Cannot​Resolve​Symbol

    Minh said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    I don't know about this... Because of simple volume, OEMs just have more buying power than any individual. Dollar-for-dollar, you simply cannot beat the hardware cost of an OEM. I recently bought a Dell desktop for $350... and there was just no way I could spend that cash for that hardware...

    And OEMs just can put together better components than me... I can guess if a certain motherboard would play well with a certain video card... If I'm wrong, I'm out a 1/3 of the cost of the machine.

    You might be interested to know that I was just able to spec out a machine practically identical to Dell's cheapest desktop ($249) on Newegg for almost exactly $249.  And once you start talking about higher-end components, building yourself starts to pay off (as Dell and friends tend to overcharge for outdated or underpowered components).  It's hard to find a system without integrated graphics from Dell now, even.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    CannotResolveSymbol said:
    Minh said:
    *snip*

    You might be interested to know that I was just able to spec out a machine practically identical to Dell's cheapest desktop ($249) on Newegg for almost exactly $249.  And once you start talking about higher-end components, building yourself starts to pay off (as Dell and friends tend to overcharge for outdated or underpowered components).  It's hard to find a system without integrated graphics from Dell now, even.

    Really? I supposed NewEgg was able to supply hardware cost near the price of Dell's raw hardware cost cuz Dell has to include the cost of someone putting it together.

    I will have to see if I can spec a Dell's system close to the one I just built. But I optimized for low-noise, so I don't know if Dell would have a similar set of components. Plus it's been a couple of years, so the price should be halfed by now haha

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    CannotResolveSymbol said:
    Minh said:
    *snip*

    You might be interested to know that I was just able to spec out a machine practically identical to Dell's cheapest desktop ($249) on Newegg for almost exactly $249.  And once you start talking about higher-end components, building yourself starts to pay off (as Dell and friends tend to overcharge for outdated or underpowered components).  It's hard to find a system without integrated graphics from Dell now, even.

    Then you'd be mad to go with the NewEgg solution. Dell's offering would include a single warranty, be properly developed to have good airflow (always hit and miss, more often miss, with home builds) and is pretty much guaranteed to "just work". Home build machines need to work out a lot cheaper to be worthwhile, require a lot of expertise to get right and even then are subject to a fair bit of luck.

    And I'd disagree about high end hardware, the more powerful the machine you need, the more important it becomes to get a system with well designed airflow and that's tricky with a case you buy by picking what looks nice in a webpage. And big OEMs put a lot more effort into checking alternatives, such as the overall performance characteristics of hard drives etc, which the specs on NewEgg aren't really going to show you.

  • User profile image
    gadget

    AndyC said:
    CannotResolveSymbol said:
    *snip*

    Then you'd be mad to go with the NewEgg solution. Dell's offering would include a single warranty, be properly developed to have good airflow (always hit and miss, more often miss, with home builds) and is pretty much guaranteed to "just work". Home build machines need to work out a lot cheaper to be worthwhile, require a lot of expertise to get right and even then are subject to a fair bit of luck.

    And I'd disagree about high end hardware, the more powerful the machine you need, the more important it becomes to get a system with well designed airflow and that's tricky with a case you buy by picking what looks nice in a webpage. And big OEMs put a lot more effort into checking alternatives, such as the overall performance characteristics of hard drives etc, which the specs on NewEgg aren't really going to show you.

    I disagree, as would anyone who has built custom systems. I don't even consider mass market boxes when planning a new system.

    If your goal is to have a cheap box that performs decent go Dell.  On the other hand, if you want the best box that meets your requirements build a custom system if you have the skills.

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