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Mono getting attacked

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  • User profile image
    Bass

    Mono is like the btard stepchild of free software projects. Free software fanboys hate it because it implements unholy "criminal monopolist technology". Microsoft fanboys hate it because it's "anti-capitalist freetard software".

    http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer/2009061102135OSCY

    http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/06/why-mono-is-des.html

    http://nocturn.vsbnet.be/node/155

     

    So what is your opinion of Mono? Is it "criminal monopolist technology"? Is it "anti-capitalist freetard software"? Or is it something else, a tool to bring .NET to the greater computing world?

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    Nothing wrong with mono. I'm not sure how seriously people will develop on it though since a lot of people are concerned about the legality of it for one thing.

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    a tool to bring .NET to the greater computing world

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    I use Mono for my research work, and it's great. It allows me to develop on Windows in C# using Visual Studio, and run my project on large Linux clusters. It combines the best of both worlds for me.

    If they could just improve the GC performance, it'd be perfect. Smiley

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    Sven Groot said:

    I use Mono for my research work, and it's great. It allows me to develop on Windows in C# using Visual Studio, and run my project on large Linux clusters. It combines the best of both worlds for me.

    If they could just improve the GC performance, it'd be perfect. Smiley

    Which metric of performance in particular?

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    Sven Groot

    ManipUni said:
    Sven Groot said:
    *snip*

    Which metric of performance in particular?

    I have two main issues with Mono's GC:

    1. It's not a generational GC. This makes the mark-and-sweep phase of every collection more time consuming than it needs to be.
    2. It uses a stop-the-world approach, which means all threads are stopped during the mark phase.

    I've had some app that created a lot of short-lived strings (I'm talking many millions here), and profile traces showed it spending almost 20% of its time in the GC, of which nearly 10% in the mark function (which means that for 10% of the apps execution times, all threads were suspended). That, plus the time taken to allocate all those string objects, meant I got a nearly 40% performance improvement by switching to a custom, mutable string class (I didn't use StringBuilder for reasons that aren't important right now) so I could reuse the object instances.

    A proper generational GC is apparently being worked on but Mono's own people estimate it could be years before it's stable enough to move into the main branch, by which time I hope to have graduated. Smiley

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    Never actually run into a Microsoft bod who hates it.

     

  • User profile image
    Dexter

    Ray7 said:

    Never actually run into a Microsoft bod who hates it.

     

    Eh fanboys... give'em blogs & forums and they'll sure make some noise. Besides, the "anti-capitalist" part sounds more like a political/ecnomical opinion rather than something related to Mono or Microsoft.

    BTW, I wrote an importer for a game and thanks to Mono it runs on OSX. Neat.

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    Ray7 said:

    Never actually run into a Microsoft bod who hates it.

     

    Me neither. Actually, all the ones I've spoked to about are very interested and eager to help...

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    Dexter said:
    Ray7 said:
    *snip*

    Eh fanboys... give'em blogs & forums and they'll sure make some noise. Besides, the "anti-capitalist" part sounds more like a political/ecnomical opinion rather than something related to Mono or Microsoft.

    BTW, I wrote an importer for a game and thanks to Mono it runs on OSX. Neat.

    I would think MS fanboys would cheer Mono, because its a way to prove Microsoft isn't trying to control development or limit cross-platform code.

    I haven't seen fanboys who think the other way.

     

  • User profile image
    Cannot​Resolve​Symbol

    It's worth noting that there are popular Mono applications shipped with most distributions by default (Banshee, Beagle, F-Spot, and Tomboy are all C# apps running on Mono using GTK# for their UI).  That would seem to indicate that Mono isn't univerally hated by the F/OSS community, either.

  • User profile image
    Bass

    CannotResolveSymbol said:

    It's worth noting that there are popular Mono applications shipped with most distributions by default (Banshee, Beagle, F-Spot, and Tomboy are all C# apps running on Mono using GTK# for their UI).  That would seem to indicate that Mono isn't univerally hated by the F/OSS community, either.

    Yeah, it's kind of funny. I think Linux uses more .NET on the desktop then Windows does.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    CannotResolveSymbol said:

    It's worth noting that there are popular Mono applications shipped with most distributions by default (Banshee, Beagle, F-Spot, and Tomboy are all C# apps running on Mono using GTK# for their UI).  That would seem to indicate that Mono isn't univerally hated by the F/OSS community, either.

    I actually tell the non-Windows guys to get Mono to run my software. Of course, I don't test it on Mono, so I don't care if it crashs on Mono. I personally don't care much. Being a fanboy meaning understanding MS. MS is not making a fuzz, why should I? As far as I see, MS is happy with Mono bring .Net to more platforms, which is ultimatly like what MS done with Silverlight. Best of all, MS didn't spend a dim on it.

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    wkempf

    "Microsoft fanboys hate it because it's "anti-capitalist freetard software"."

    Really?  I've never once seen a MS fanboy make such claims about Mono. I'd be interested in seeing even a single such comment. More importantly, I highly doubt that such comments, if they do exist, are anything but extremely rare, while the "Free software fanboys" tirades are all too common.  You can't mention Mono anywhere on the Internet without having multiple such tirades posted in response. That says a lot to me. About the communities, not the technologies.

  • User profile image
    Bass

    wkempf said:

    "Microsoft fanboys hate it because it's "anti-capitalist freetard software"."

    Really?  I've never once seen a MS fanboy make such claims about Mono. I'd be interested in seeing even a single such comment. More importantly, I highly doubt that such comments, if they do exist, are anything but extremely rare, while the "Free software fanboys" tirades are all too common.  You can't mention Mono anywhere on the Internet without having multiple such tirades posted in response. That says a lot to me. About the communities, not the technologies.

    Well the anti-Linux fanboy or the MSFT fanboy is a pretty new thing. I don't know if they are being sarcastic, but there are plenty of places on the 'net you can find gatherings of such people. Just be careful, NSFW and all.

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    I'm really happy that Mono is around. I found it often an interesting resource for browsing some code and seeing some nice patterns/algos implemented.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    Bass said:
    wkempf said:
    *snip*

    Well the anti-Linux fanboy or the MSFT fanboy is a pretty new thing. I don't know if they are being sarcastic, but there are plenty of places on the 'net you can find gatherings of such people. Just be careful, NSFW and all.

    Could you point out one of these places? I haven't managed to find one of these MS fanboys who hates Mono, and I'd like to see how they justify their hatred.

     

  • User profile image
    contextfree

    I'm not sure it's MS fanboys who hate Mono so much as .net developers/managers who don't take it seriously.  I like Mono, and don't think it's necessarily fatal that it doesn't always support all the latest .net libraries (plenty of Windows .net developers are still targeting older versions anyway); it also has unique capabilities of its own (I've also used some Mono assemblies in Windows projects)  They should really consider making a serious effort to implement WPF now though, now that it's finally starting to gain traction.

    "Yeah, it's kind of funny. I think Linux uses more .NET on the desktop then Windows does."

    also ironically, before it was ported to Windows (but I can't get it to install on 7 for some reason ...) Tomboy was like the only Unix-exclusive app I really missed when running Windows

     

     

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