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Win7=Fonts for the web!  ?

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  • User profile image
    jamie

    quick idea about fonts ... on the web.

    Q: why not include 2000 fonts with win7 (or partner with corel to do it)

    ?
    It sure would bug Adobe.. and SteveB could announce:

    " Fonts for all - now with windows - the web has opened up to real publishing!" *when using IE

    there could be Font packs rolled out as well - for sure one containing Segoe - entire family
    (in the old days - MS pushed for fonts on the web - first with weft etc)

    lets go ms! fonts on the web! win7!  ?

     

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    Bill Hill went into this in his last interview. It's not about getting web fonts on Windows 7, it's about setting a standard on font embedding. Microsoft already has the best one out there, needs to be ratified.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    Harlequin said:

    Bill Hill went into this in his last interview. It's not about getting web fonts on Windows 7, it's about setting a standard on font embedding. Microsoft already has the best one out there, needs to be ratified.

    yes but...   adobe used to own all the fonts - till michael copeland (corel founder) cloned/clean roomed them all into "truetype"

    they were all named closely - and - YES - had more nodes (who cares about nodes on todays rips??)

    so the time is now:  call corel - 2000 fonts in windows - the web will come alive!!

     

     

    edit: Corel plug: Corel is THE MOST windows standard UI guidelines using company i know.

     

    edit2:  why should i upgrade from xp or vista?  A:  ... the web with 2000 fonts?

     

    edit 3:   ... is that not a clear message?  is that not a clear - "we're on your side" annoucement?
    go for it ms! 

  • User profile image
    stevo_

    Jamie if you are wanting to embed custom fonts into webpages, this is becoming pretty realistic, you are limited to a degree (more so with IE) and also legally but its certainly starting to happen as browsers race towards implementing css3 features.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    stevo_ said:

    Jamie if you are wanting to embed custom fonts into webpages, this is becoming pretty realistic, you are limited to a degree (more so with IE) and also legally but its certainly starting to happen as browsers race towards implementing css3 features.

    corel owns their fonts.  and if no deal can be reached - then im suggesting ms clone all the adobe/corel fonts for themselves.
    end goal - windows with 2000 fonts on 200 mil computers. - installed - or dynamically installed
    the web would be amazing

     ENOUGH WITH GEORGIA TAHOMA AND VERDANA BEING "NEW"

     

    edit:  k'emon ... we need O'Ballmer here... Wink

  • User profile image
    jamie

    jamie said:
    stevo_ said:
    *snip*

    corel owns their fonts.  and if no deal can be reached - then im suggesting ms clone all the adobe/corel fonts for themselves.
    end goal - windows with 2000 fonts on 200 mil computers. - installed - or dynamically installed
    the web would be amazing

     ENOUGH WITH GEORGIA TAHOMA AND VERDANA BEING "NEW"

     

    edit:  k'emon ... we need O'Ballmer here... Wink

    You know how Ballmer is at ms meetings?  why cant he be like that for the public?

    Steve b - on touch and fonts for the web  :  jumping around sweating.... id BUY it!

  • User profile image
    figuerres

    jamie said:
    Harlequin said:
    *snip*

    yes but...   adobe used to own all the fonts - till michael copeland (corel founder) cloned/clean roomed them all into "truetype"

    they were all named closely - and - YES - had more nodes (who cares about nodes on todays rips??)

    so the time is now:  call corel - 2000 fonts in windows - the web will come alive!!

     

     

    edit: Corel plug: Corel is THE MOST windows standard UI guidelines using company i know.

     

    edit2:  why should i upgrade from xp or vista?  A:  ... the web with 2000 fonts?

     

    edit 3:   ... is that not a clear message?  is that not a clear - "we're on your side" annoucement?
    go for it ms! 

    Adobe never "owned all the fonts" not by a long shot.  they had a set of outlines that went with the PostScript engine yes but that was 36 faces.

    Type Faces are owned by the creator / Type Foundry ... Like Monotype for example.

    now if you look at a catalog of many faces most of them are just slight variations on a few of the classic ones like Times or Helvetica.

    I think really that "the average joe" will generally not even see the differences between many of the faces out there.

    so this brings up the question of how much benefit to how many users at what cost?

    Now I think that a set of faces like the classic 36 PS faces would have a good value .... but not 2K or more.

    aside from that IMHO if you feel strongly on this get with Bill Hill and the WC3 on the standards for FontEmbeding in html.

    I do think that getting all the major players in line on that would be great -- down the road we could see less giant jpegs on pages just to spell out one or two words like say "Shell" or "Microsoft" or whatever.... and that would also make them searchable and more userfull for the blind etc...

    PS: Faces NOT Fonts,  you should licence a face and then have the rights to use that face in all it's forms. you do know that yes?

  • User profile image
    jamie

    figuerres said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*

    Adobe never "owned all the fonts" not by a long shot.  they had a set of outlines that went with the PostScript engine yes but that was 36 faces.

    Type Faces are owned by the creator / Type Foundry ... Like Monotype for example.

    now if you look at a catalog of many faces most of them are just slight variations on a few of the classic ones like Times or Helvetica.

    I think really that "the average joe" will generally not even see the differences between many of the faces out there.

    so this brings up the question of how much benefit to how many users at what cost?

    Now I think that a set of faces like the classic 36 PS faces would have a good value .... but not 2K or more.

    aside from that IMHO if you feel strongly on this get with Bill Hill and the WC3 on the standards for FontEmbeding in html.

    I do think that getting all the major players in line on that would be great -- down the road we could see less giant jpegs on pages just to spell out one or two words like say "Shell" or "Microsoft" or whatever.... and that would also make them searchable and more userfull for the blind etc...

    PS: Faces NOT Fonts,  you should licence a face and then have the rights to use that face in all it's forms. you do know that yes?

    hmmm i dont agree - licencing and embedding are messy

    although many will not agree with me either - notice the "ie only"

    I seriously dont think ballmer has any intentions of just doing a good deed for all - but he MIGHT do one for windows users
    "got IE? Welcome to the 2000 font web"

    id like that.

     

    Edit: there comes a time when certain functionality gets incorporated into the OS
    As a non-programmer - I submit that FONTS should be considered a core part of the entire system

    ?

     

    *windows machines ARE the internet...  no more: only 30 fonts....

     

     

    THINK OF THE PRESS Smiley

    *may as well grab coreldraw and painter while youre at it ... whistle whistle...

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    jamie said:
    figuerres said:
    *snip*

    hmmm i dont agree - licencing and embedding are messy

    although many will not agree with me either - notice the "ie only"

    I seriously dont think ballmer has any intentions of just doing a good deed for all - but he MIGHT do one for windows users
    "got IE? Welcome to the 2000 font web"

    id like that.

     

    Edit: there comes a time when certain functionality gets incorporated into the OS
    As a non-programmer - I submit that FONTS should be considered a core part of the entire system

    ?

     

    *windows machines ARE the internet...  no more: only 30 fonts....

     

     

    THINK OF THE PRESS Smiley

    *may as well grab coreldraw and painter while youre at it ... whistle whistle...

    If all you want is "ie only", then you just need WFET3 and any font of your choice.

    Problem solved.

    Next!

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    PaoloM said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*

    If all you want is "ie only", then you just need WFET3 and any font of your choice.

    Problem solved.

    Next!

    There is also SiFR and others like it. Uses Flash to write out the font, even selectable as text too. Problem is, again, you're back to licensing issues. Subscribe to the "i love typography" blog, to see how much work people actually put into making fonts. I think the same mentallity needs to go towards having music embedded in your page.

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    Harlequin said:
    PaoloM said:
    *snip*

    There is also SiFR and others like it. Uses Flash to write out the font, even selectable as text too. Problem is, again, you're back to licensing issues. Subscribe to the "i love typography" blog, to see how much work people actually put into making fonts. I think the same mentallity needs to go towards having music embedded in your page.

    I love SiFR, but you're right. Fonts should only be used for the purpose they were licensed.

  • User profile image
    figuerres

    jamie said:
    figuerres said:
    *snip*

    hmmm i dont agree - licencing and embedding are messy

    although many will not agree with me either - notice the "ie only"

    I seriously dont think ballmer has any intentions of just doing a good deed for all - but he MIGHT do one for windows users
    "got IE? Welcome to the 2000 font web"

    id like that.

     

    Edit: there comes a time when certain functionality gets incorporated into the OS
    As a non-programmer - I submit that FONTS should be considered a core part of the entire system

    ?

     

    *windows machines ARE the internet...  no more: only 30 fonts....

     

     

    THINK OF THE PRESS Smiley

    *may as well grab coreldraw and painter while youre at it ... whistle whistle...

    well sorry but i think that

    1) *if* msft were to do the "2000 fonts" they would have to cover the messy licensing costs - you may not see this is a big deal but it is.

    2)  Next comes the law suits that would follow this... even if they were without merit msft would have to deal with the costs of them.

    3)  "IE ONLY" would be non-enforcable - it would have to be windows, any app that runs on windows.

    4) why?  again what is the benefit to 90% of the users of windows ? sorry but as far as i can tell this costly idea only benefits a small number of the userbase.

    like i said just get a good set of faces for the os and then get on the standard.

    for MSFT the winning press angle (IMHO)  is to work with the standards body and show MSFT as a fair player in the WWW / W3C. Push the "We do not want to be the evil giant of the software world" that would give Mr. Steve a good story to push that would clearly put MSFT in a positive light.

    And let's not forget that there are other OS'es and Browsers out there, they are not going to all disapear next year... so a standard that gets better type into more browsers means that web designers have a clean way to build better sites that will "just work" for the customer.  the desinger should not have to make 2 versions of a site one for windows and another that looks worse for everyone else. thats the wrong way to do it. if you want to "Publish to the WWW" that is.

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    I'd like Calibri more than Segoe to be a standard Web font. Calibri is like the sans serif version of Georgia

     

  • User profile image
    jamie

    figuerres said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*

    well sorry but i think that

    1) *if* msft were to do the "2000 fonts" they would have to cover the messy licensing costs - you may not see this is a big deal but it is.

    2)  Next comes the law suits that would follow this... even if they were without merit msft would have to deal with the costs of them.

    3)  "IE ONLY" would be non-enforcable - it would have to be windows, any app that runs on windows.

    4) why?  again what is the benefit to 90% of the users of windows ? sorry but as far as i can tell this costly idea only benefits a small number of the userbase.

    like i said just get a good set of faces for the os and then get on the standard.

    for MSFT the winning press angle (IMHO)  is to work with the standards body and show MSFT as a fair player in the WWW / W3C. Push the "We do not want to be the evil giant of the software world" that would give Mr. Steve a good story to push that would clearly put MSFT in a positive light.

    And let's not forget that there are other OS'es and Browsers out there, they are not going to all disapear next year... so a standard that gets better type into more browsers means that web designers have a clean way to build better sites that will "just work" for the customer.  the desinger should not have to make 2 versions of a site one for windows and another that looks worse for everyone else. thats the wrong way to do it. if you want to "Publish to the WWW" that is.

    how did copeland get away with it then?

     

    edit : all replies above = licencing... NO licencing  RIP off - set free - fonts everywhere

    seriously - what has ms to gain from fonts apart from using them through corel

    and STILL setting them free - to bug adobe

     

    (last i heard Expression suite was a non-starter... have we got the fp vs ex web #'s yet? )

     

     

    edit: Helvetica?  meet MS Ettica

     

    Linux?  you thought you had no fonts before... couldnt even deal with the main 6 let alone 30 - lets see how you do when the WEB moves to 2000 fonts - licenced free to all Windows Users ..using IE

     

    *ok there is licencing - but windows users do not deal with it

    ** maybe even any browser ON windows - doesnt deal with it... not sure

    (windows, windows, windows) !

  • User profile image
    jamie

    jamie said:
    figuerres said:
    *snip*

    how did copeland get away with it then?

     

    edit : all replies above = licencing... NO licencing  RIP off - set free - fonts everywhere

    seriously - what has ms to gain from fonts apart from using them through corel

    and STILL setting them free - to bug adobe

     

    (last i heard Expression suite was a non-starter... have we got the fp vs ex web #'s yet? )

     

     

    edit: Helvetica?  meet MS Ettica

     

    Linux?  you thought you had no fonts before... couldnt even deal with the main 6 let alone 30 - lets see how you do when the WEB moves to 2000 fonts - licenced free to all Windows Users ..using IE

     

    *ok there is licencing - but windows users do not deal with it

    ** maybe even any browser ON windows - doesnt deal with it... not sure

    (windows, windows, windows) !

    ps - dynamic fonts - sounds like something google would announce:

    New from Google: All the fonts in the world on the web.

    Just click here to subscribe to the Google live open font web - and your browser will automattically support over 300 fonts - and counting!"

    so... we wait for that - or go for 2000!!   ... on local machine for real

     

     

    edit: im sorry but i have to say..again... that if ms bought draw / photopaint and painter - and added them to expression ( plus did the web font thing) adobe stock would go ...down

  • User profile image
    jamie

    jamie said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*

    ps - dynamic fonts - sounds like something google would announce:

    New from Google: All the fonts in the world on the web.

    Just click here to subscribe to the Google live open font web - and your browser will automattically support over 300 fonts - and counting!"

    so... we wait for that - or go for 2000!!   ... on local machine for real

     

     

    edit: im sorry but i have to say..again... that if ms bought draw / photopaint and painter - and added them to expression ( plus did the web font thing) adobe stock would go ...down

    ...see there are ways to be evil... but still give everyone fonts! (mostly everyone) Wink

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    jamie said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*

    ...see there are ways to be evil... but still give everyone fonts! (mostly everyone) Wink

    Did you even bother to read the link I posted?

    Expressionless

  • User profile image
    jamie

    PaoloM said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*

    Did you even bother to read the link I posted?

    Expressionless

    thats embedding - im talking ( hoping) for local

    *web devs would use all fonts if some big company would just say "fonts for the web!"

    who will it be?

    - ms buys corel (excluding WP) makes fonts commodity (bundles)
    - google does same - launches open font warehouse (dynamic)

     

    * i want the 2000 font ms bundle that works in other apps!

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