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Boycott Opera?

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  • User profile image
    Heywood_J

    Apparently some people have started a Boycott Opera campaign because of Opera's anti-trust lawsuit against Microsoft.  This seems rather pointless and stupid considering that nobody uses Opera anyway.

     

     

  • User profile image
    Koogle

    "This seems rather pointless and stupid considering that nobody uses Opera anyway"

    Tongue Out lol .. yes if Opera actually did something to address the reasons why people don't bother using Opera they wouldn't have this problem.

  • User profile image
    dahat

    How about we wait to see if they do in fact 'reinvent the web'... and if they fail (as they are almost certainly* going to), then boycott them by sticking with the status que.

    *'almost certainly' is defined as being "without an overt act of god"... as despite not being a god fearing man, I figure we've at least got to give them a hearing and a chance to mess things up for themselves.

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    dahat said:

    How about we wait to see if they do in fact 'reinvent the web'... and if they fail (as they are almost certainly* going to), then boycott them by sticking with the status que.

    *'almost certainly' is defined as being "without an overt act of god"... as despite not being a god fearing man, I figure we've at least got to give them a hearing and a chance to mess things up for themselves.

    That's a very nice looking teaser site.

  • User profile image
    Cream​Filling512

    dahat said:

    How about we wait to see if they do in fact 'reinvent the web'... and if they fail (as they are almost certainly* going to), then boycott them by sticking with the status que.

    *'almost certainly' is defined as being "without an overt act of god"... as despite not being a god fearing man, I figure we've at least got to give them a hearing and a chance to mess things up for themselves.

    I hope the new web has better colors.

  • User profile image
    TommyCarlier

    Mozilla and Google also support the EU investigation, so if you boycot Opera for this, you should also boycot Firefox and Chrome.

  • User profile image
    TommyCarlier

    dahat said:

    How about we wait to see if they do in fact 'reinvent the web'... and if they fail (as they are almost certainly* going to), then boycott them by sticking with the status que.

    *'almost certainly' is defined as being "without an overt act of god"... as despite not being a god fearing man, I figure we've at least got to give them a hearing and a chance to mess things up for themselves.

    If you look at the HTML-source of the teaser, you can find the following text in comment:

    We start our little story with the invention of the modern day computer. Over the years, the computers grew in numbers, and the next natural step in the evolution was to connect them together. To share things. But as these little networks grew, some computers gained more power than the rest and called themselves servers. Today, millions of people are connected together in a great web ...
    Sounds like they might introduce some P2P technology.

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    TommyCarlier said:

    Mozilla and Google also support the EU investigation, so if you boycot Opera for this, you should also boycot Firefox and Chrome.

    It's hard to say if they would have started lawsuits themselves. Anyway its sort of besides the point, the boycott is about making a statement. I don't think I'll join in, since I have to test my HTML in Opera for browser compatibility.

  • User profile image
    TommyCarlier

    brian.shapiro said:
    TommyCarlier said:
    *snip*

    It's hard to say if they would have started lawsuits themselves. Anyway its sort of besides the point, the boycott is about making a statement. I don't think I'll join in, since I have to test my HTML in Opera for browser compatibility.

    I don't like the EU case, but I won't boycott Opera, because I've been using it for years and it defines how I use the internet (not just the web).

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Ah there it is.

    I find it strange that I've never seen an ad for opera, never seen it linked to with any great effect, and yet there they are, having done zero marketing that I can see blaming IE for the fact that no-one uses their stuff. Crying cocodile tears about anti-trust because you don't have effective marketing is, frankly, a big stinking lie. Firefox have managed to knock a considerable share off IE, and they haven't been going anywhere near as long as Opera, and why? Because they marketed, via geeks, via ads - and it worked. Heck even Chrome has a better penetration now than Opera.

    I think Opera are using the "If you build it they will come" attitude to getting their browser on the desktop. It seems they have realised they need to put their browser in front of people, but rather than market like everyone else, they want to force their advert into Windows.

  • User profile image
    stevo_

    Phht, like it'll make a difference.. we (the users) don't get a choice of if we want a default browser or not (for the record - we do).. but thats the entire point of the EU crap right? removing user choice? ..oh.. it isn't? .. just a guise to steal money.. huh, you don't say...

  • User profile image
    LeoDavidson

    TommyCarlier said:

    Mozilla and Google also support the EU investigation, so if you boycot Opera for this, you should also boycot Firefox and Chrome.

    Mozilla and Google also support the EU investigation, so if you boycot Opera for this, you should also boycot Firefox and Chrome.

    I agree with that, plus the statement that this is just people who would never have used Opera in the first place "boycotting" it.

    However, there is an irritating combination with Opera that doesn't seem to afflict Firefox/Chrome: They're constantly whining about how they invented this and that and how they deserve a better market share though some god-given right, yet they cannot see that the main reason their market share is so bad is that their product sucks. (And that it used to cost money and suck.)

    I have all the major browsers installed right now to test some javascript stuff and Opera is by far the worst. Worse even than Safari (now that Safari has something resembling a standard UI). I'm surprised that it's so bad given the vocal praise it gets from a few people, but I honestly hate it and see a lot of other people feel the same. (I'm no fan of IE either, FWIW, esp. after finding so many bugs still exist in IE8's rendering engine.)

    I find the lawsuit ridiculous as well. MS should be sued when they tell OEMs etc. they cannot install competing software/OS (like they did wiht BeOS back in the day) but MS should be able to provide whatever they want with the OS, within reason, and MS should not be forced to distribute or promote other people's software.

    I'm a huge fan of an alternative file manager, and I think the built-in one is garbage, but I don't go around complaining that it's there, demanding that the OS ship without a file manager or demanding that MS distribute the one I like*. It's ridiculous. Of course more people will use the built-in one. That's life. If you can't improve on it enough to get enough customers (or advertising or whatever your model is) to survive then that's your fault, not Microsoft's.

    (*I have complained that there's no proper API or control panel for replacing the file manager like there is for replacing the web browser, but that complaint is bourne out of Windows making it fiddly to accomplish something, not the desire to have my choice forced upon other people.)

    I mean, what next? Make MS remove MSPaint.exe or bundle Photoshop? Ban Notepad.exe? Where does it end? Why are web browsers such a special case for so many people?

     

  • User profile image
    joechung

    LeoDavidson said:
    TommyCarlier said:
    *snip*

    I agree with that, plus the statement that this is just people who would never have used Opera in the first place "boycotting" it.

    However, there is an irritating combination with Opera that doesn't seem to afflict Firefox/Chrome: They're constantly whining about how they invented this and that and how they deserve a better market share though some god-given right, yet they cannot see that the main reason their market share is so bad is that their product sucks. (And that it used to cost money and suck.)

    I have all the major browsers installed right now to test some javascript stuff and Opera is by far the worst. Worse even than Safari (now that Safari has something resembling a standard UI). I'm surprised that it's so bad given the vocal praise it gets from a few people, but I honestly hate it and see a lot of other people feel the same. (I'm no fan of IE either, FWIW, esp. after finding so many bugs still exist in IE8's rendering engine.)

    I find the lawsuit ridiculous as well. MS should be sued when they tell OEMs etc. they cannot install competing software/OS (like they did wiht BeOS back in the day) but MS should be able to provide whatever they want with the OS, within reason, and MS should not be forced to distribute or promote other people's software.

    I'm a huge fan of an alternative file manager, and I think the built-in one is garbage, but I don't go around complaining that it's there, demanding that the OS ship without a file manager or demanding that MS distribute the one I like*. It's ridiculous. Of course more people will use the built-in one. That's life. If you can't improve on it enough to get enough customers (or advertising or whatever your model is) to survive then that's your fault, not Microsoft's.

    (*I have complained that there's no proper API or control panel for replacing the file manager like there is for replacing the web browser, but that complaint is bourne out of Windows making it fiddly to accomplish something, not the desire to have my choice forced upon other people.)

    I mean, what next? Make MS remove MSPaint.exe or bundle Photoshop? Ban Notepad.exe? Where does it end? Why are web browsers such a special case for so many people?

     

    Web browsers aren't a special case.  There's also media players.  And maybe, in a few years, antivirus software.

  • User profile image
    LeoDavidson

    joechung said:
    LeoDavidson said:
    *snip*

    Web browsers aren't a special case.  There's also media players.  And maybe, in a few years, antivirus software.

    Hmm, that's a good point.

    Maybe it's just that there are no huge players in the file manager / text editor / etc. markets to create ridiculous lawsuits over those things. (Well, that and notepad/paint/calc/...err, snipping tool, what else is there? heh..., etc. are so basic and used seriously by so few that it'd be embarrassing to compare your product to them.)

     

     

  • User profile image
    contextfree

    LeoDavidson said:
    TommyCarlier said:
    *snip*

    I agree with that, plus the statement that this is just people who would never have used Opera in the first place "boycotting" it.

    However, there is an irritating combination with Opera that doesn't seem to afflict Firefox/Chrome: They're constantly whining about how they invented this and that and how they deserve a better market share though some god-given right, yet they cannot see that the main reason their market share is so bad is that their product sucks. (And that it used to cost money and suck.)

    I have all the major browsers installed right now to test some javascript stuff and Opera is by far the worst. Worse even than Safari (now that Safari has something resembling a standard UI). I'm surprised that it's so bad given the vocal praise it gets from a few people, but I honestly hate it and see a lot of other people feel the same. (I'm no fan of IE either, FWIW, esp. after finding so many bugs still exist in IE8's rendering engine.)

    I find the lawsuit ridiculous as well. MS should be sued when they tell OEMs etc. they cannot install competing software/OS (like they did wiht BeOS back in the day) but MS should be able to provide whatever they want with the OS, within reason, and MS should not be forced to distribute or promote other people's software.

    I'm a huge fan of an alternative file manager, and I think the built-in one is garbage, but I don't go around complaining that it's there, demanding that the OS ship without a file manager or demanding that MS distribute the one I like*. It's ridiculous. Of course more people will use the built-in one. That's life. If you can't improve on it enough to get enough customers (or advertising or whatever your model is) to survive then that's your fault, not Microsoft's.

    (*I have complained that there's no proper API or control panel for replacing the file manager like there is for replacing the web browser, but that complaint is bourne out of Windows making it fiddly to accomplish something, not the desire to have my choice forced upon other people.)

    I mean, what next? Make MS remove MSPaint.exe or bundle Photoshop? Ban Notepad.exe? Where does it end? Why are web browsers such a special case for so many people?

     

    Wasn't requiring MS to expose APIs/etc. they used to hook their browser into the OS to third parties part of the original antitrust settlement with the USDOJ?  I think this was a good thing, but I do wonder if the same thing would apply to file managers/window managers had history taken some alternate path.

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