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"Mozilla, Gnome mull united front against Longhorn"

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  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    http://neowin.net/comments.php?id=19500&category=main

    I'm rooting for Microsoft. Smiley I wonder what Bill Gates and/or Steve Ballmer would say in response to this.

    What does everyone else think about this?

  • User profile image
    Knute

    Shining Arcanine wrote:
    http://neowin.net/comments.php?id=19500&category=main

    I'm rooting for Microsoft. Smiley I wonder what Bill Gates and/or Steve Ballmer would say in response to this.

    What does everyone else think about this?


    I fell out of my chair laughing. If two shareware committees get together to take on MS they will be bogged down in infighting and meetings forever trying to figure out what to do.

    MS has "Paid" professionals to do the job, if they don't perform they lose their job unlike these "free" consortiums.

    All I have to say is "Bring it on baby", it would be interesting to see what they come up with in 10 years...

    ~ Knute

  • User profile image
    vanlandw

    competition is good...it will force MS to make stronger products. 

  • User profile image
    Charles

    vanlandw wrote:
    competition is good...it will force MS to make stronger products. 



    You are exactly correct. Competition is an important catalyst for innovation in any industry.


    Charles

  • User profile image
    Manip

    vanlandw wrote:
    competition is good...it will force MS to make stronger products. 



    Also because the competition tries to solve the same problem in new ways they might stumble on new ideas, which will then spread into Microsoft’s products thus improving them. The opposite is also true.. Microsoft's ideas spreading to competing products.

    *(You can't protect ideas, they are free)

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    I think it's great! Obviously they won't be solving the same problem, but the more people thinking about the problem, the more solutions we'll have. This will eventually boil down to quality.

    I'm definitely going to be watching the news sites (except /.... There'll simply be too much junk there) on this one.

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    Charles wrote:
    vanlandw wrote: competition is good...it will force MS to make stronger products. 



    You are exactly correct. Competition is an important catalyst for innovation in any industry.


    Charles


    I guess this is in response to the "Microsoft to Linux: Bring it on" news article a while back... Smiley

  • User profile image
    TheTodd

    Didn't Netscape try to do this back during the development cycle of IE4 (Nashville?)?


    Todd

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    TheTodd wrote:
    Didn't Netscape try to do this back during the development cycle of IE4 (Nashville?)?


    Todd


    If they did, history is repeating itself and Microsoft will win.

  • User profile image
    ghos

    Netscape did in fact talk about making its product more than a browser although I can't recall if it was meant to be a desktop replacement or not.  However recently I have seen a product from netscape that is like a big wheel to navigate different things.  I didn't think it was very promising.

    On the reason for this thread though, I agree that there is nothing wrong with what Mozilla and Gnome are doing.  Competition is good for the consumer.

  • User profile image
    JParrish

    Microsoft has a big advantage when it comes to creating product "visions" because they can deliver across the board. And in recent years, Microsoft has seemed more open to competition to me, and that is a very good thing.

    I have talked to some MS people, and myself included, the general feeling about MS prior to .NET was that they don't like to play with others. I hear developers often defend MS by saying "They pay my bills" or "If it wasn't for Bill G we wouldn't have computers". That is in my opinion an ignorant attitude, because the real power that has come with technology has come on the backs of what were mostly open standards.

    The CLR and C# both becoming ECMA and ISO standards gave me a very very good feeling inside. I defend .NET technologies every day to Java purists and some Macromedia purists. If there were not open standards, alternatives, etc. it would make it much harder for me to argue the technology alone.

    It is worth reading Miguel's blog entry about this topic, you can see that many of the technologies that Longhorn will include or that .NET include, have been provided before. The OSS community does sometimes have a hard time setting a single direction, but there are examples of real success, such as the Apache products, GNOME, Star Office, Mozilla.

    I am rooting for MS too, but if MS ever goes back to the approach that they will stifle competing technologies as a way of controlling a market, it will force developers like myself to seek other platforms, and that would be real shame.

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    JParrish wrote:
    Microsoft has a big advantage when it comes to creating product "visions" because they can deliver across the board. And in recent years, Microsoft has seemed more open to competition to me, and that is a very good thing.


    Being able to improve things accross the board is better for the customer.

  • User profile image
    Knute

    JParrish wrote:

    I have talked to some MS people, and myself included, the general feeling about MS prior to .NET was that they don't like to play with others. I hear developers often defend MS by saying "They pay my bills" or "If it wasn't for Bill G we wouldn't have computers". That is in my opinion an ignorant attitude, because the real power that has come with technology has come on the backs of what were mostly open standards.


    We would have computers whether Bill G was involved or not, they might not be on everyones desk like they are today. Also I am not sure what you meant by "an ignorant attitude" when you talk about developers defending Microsoft. What would a more educated response be? I mean let's just talk brass tacks here, ok?

    House + Food + Clothes = - Money
    Job programming MS Technologies = + Money

    I agree with the other posters who talk about competition. I think it's very important and can help all companies involved.

    ~ Knute

  • User profile image
    jamie

    MS = rock on

    ..always the best for all - (not the few)

    the thought of that alone is beyond most OSS zealots reasoning ablities..

    * didnt mean to sound mean - but there are some vicious oss advicates out there.. and alot of bitter ones too - ms is good at integrating pop culture into windows

    I dont run linux YET but am watching it.
    To me they say its "more stable that windows"  - hahaha lol LIE

    try to DO anything in it.. like open tons of apps all at once - or edit huge photos - X-Windows bombs or is herky jerky

    im sure the base is good - but the whole interface system in linux isnt as good as even current max/xp ones

    <dennis>
    of course thats just my opinion i could be wrong
    </dennis>


  • User profile image
    JParrish

    Knute wrote:
    JParrish wrote:
    I have talked to some MS people, and myself included, the general feeling about MS prior to .NET was that they don't like to play with others. I hear developers often defend MS by saying "They pay my bills" or "If it wasn't for Bill G we wouldn't have computers". That is in my opinion an ignorant attitude, because the real power that has come with technology has come on the backs of what were mostly open standards.


    We would have computers whether Bill G was involved or not, they might not be on everyones desk like they are today. Also I am not sure what you meant by "an ignorant attitude" when you talk about developers defending Microsoft. What would a more educated response be? I mean let's just talk brass tacks here, ok?

    House + Food + Clothes = - Money
    Job programming MS Technologies = + Money

    I agree with the other posters who talk about competition. I think it's very important and can help all companies involved.



    What I meant by an ignorant attitude was that if a developer defends MS simply because they are making them money, then to me that shows a lack of attention to the bigger picture. From your comments I can see you don't have that attitude, but I have met plenty of people that are so zealous of MS that they turn a blind eye everything. I love MS products, especially recently, but like I said, as a developer I demand that the platforms we build on will participate with standards so that other platforms may interoperate.

  • User profile image
    lars

    vanlandw wrote:
    competition is good...it will force MS to make stronger products. 


    True. Competition is good. Copyrights to protect your work are good. Patents on trivial ideas are bad.

    I'm just waiting for someone to patent the colour Blue.

    /Lars.

  • User profile image
    Tom Malone

    One of the major problems i have with microsoft, is that in the past they have not supported open standards, and as a result, the internet is not sharing information the way it was designed to. You have to use ie, for online banking etc. The scary thing with longhorn is not that the web that is meant to allow the whole world to communicate will really so much on microsoft technology that the whole world can only communicate on microsoft machines. This to me does not sound competitive, people should be given the choice of os, if they choose windows or another variation, they should still be able to choose, only then will innovation occur.

  • User profile image
    DMassy

    "The scary thing with longhorn is not that the web that is meant to allow the whole world to communicate will really so much on microsoft technology that the whole world can only communicate on microsoft machines."

    Hey Tom,
    I'm not sure where you got this impression. Take a look at Indigo the communications pillar in Longhorn. this allows developer to easily communicate reliably and securely. From the FAQ:
    "Indigo includes support for the latest Web services standards, including SOAP. Applications built with Indigo will interoperate with any application built on infrastructure that also conforms to these standards. This includes IBM WebSphere, BEA WebLogic and other Web services built in J2EE that are SOAP-standards compliant. Microsoft is deeply committed to platform interoperability, and an active member of the key standards organizations defining the latest standards for Web services including SOAP and XML."  

    Thanks
    -Dave

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