Coffeehouse Thread

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vs 2010 RC is sexy

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  • harumscarum

    that is all...cannot have too many threads saying this!

  • Cannot​Resolve​Symbol

    If crappy WPF font rendering is your idea of sexy, then yes, I suppose it's sexy...

  • spivonious

    CannotResolveSymbol said:

    If crappy WPF font rendering is your idea of sexy, then yes, I suppose it's sexy...

    I agree. Is it really that hard to get clear fonts? As much as I hate to say it, Ubuntu does sub-pixel font rendering and the fonts are all very clear.

  • figuerres

    spivonious said:
    CannotResolveSymbol said:
    *snip*

    I agree. Is it really that hard to get clear fonts? As much as I hate to say it, Ubuntu does sub-pixel font rendering and the fonts are all very clear.

    so this is *STILL* a problem with WPF ? I thought that they had it fixed in the V4 bits?

     

    when i ran Beta2 on my home machine it looked fine to me.

     

  • rhm

    figuerres said:
    spivonious said:
    *snip*

    so this is *STILL* a problem with WPF ? I thought that they had it fixed in the V4 bits?

     

    when i ran Beta2 on my home machine it looked fine to me.

     

    It looks fine to me in the RC. I think some people are just against WPF on principle and will always complain no matter how good it is.

  • mawcc

    CannotResolveSymbol said:

    If crappy WPF font rendering is your idea of sexy, then yes, I suppose it's sexy...

    I'd say it also depends on the screen. I've got 2 expensive Dells (with IPS panel) at work and the fonts look very good, whereas on the cheap Samsungs at home the fonts look slightly worse.

  • exoteric

    rhm said:
    figuerres said:
    *snip*

    It looks fine to me in the RC. I think some people are just against WPF on principle and will always complain no matter how good it is.

    Yep. No repro here. On the other hand I'd like to have a screen with twice the DPI. It's still not high-resolution enough to up the Windows DPI setting.

  • JoshRoss

    CannotResolveSymbol said:

    If crappy WPF font rendering is your idea of sexy, then yes, I suppose it's sexy...

    Are you using a crappy old CRT?  I have a Dell U2410, Windows 7, and a discerning taste.  From my vantage point, the RC is a thing of beauty.

  • ManipUni

    The XSL debug mode is kind of cool. Wish you could mouse over variables etc and see what is in them like you can with code... I am still learning about the XSL debug mode, I'm not entirely sure I "get" the point of break points in that context.

  • intelman

    Fonts on windows seem to be quite unevenly clear. With the introduction of cleartype in XP, many reported it to be blurry, it just felt weird. Vista's cleartype looked much better, but still, some windows and dialogues have a weird look and color. Then comes 7, where it seems to have the best version of cleartype, though not that different than Vista's. I see less discolored fonts.

     

    I still think there is a problem there somewhere. Reading on other OSes, the fonts just seem nicer somehow. OSX, and many linux flavors. Windows is not horrible, but something could be improved, I am just not sure what.

  • rhm

    intelman said:

    Fonts on windows seem to be quite unevenly clear. With the introduction of cleartype in XP, many reported it to be blurry, it just felt weird. Vista's cleartype looked much better, but still, some windows and dialogues have a weird look and color. Then comes 7, where it seems to have the best version of cleartype, though not that different than Vista's. I see less discolored fonts.

     

    I still think there is a problem there somewhere. Reading on other OSes, the fonts just seem nicer somehow. OSX, and many linux flavors. Windows is not horrible, but something could be improved, I am just not sure what.

    I use a Mac as well and I have to say the OS X font anti-aliasing, while consistent, is nowhere near as good as Cleartype.

  • Cannot​Resolve​Symbol

    JoshRoss said:
    CannotResolveSymbol said:
    *snip*

    Are you using a crappy old CRT?  I have a Dell U2410, Windows 7, and a discerning taste.  From my vantage point, the RC is a thing of beauty.

    I use ClearType (on an LCD) on every machine I use.  Visual Studio (via WPF) does something funky to ClearType--  it's not quite consistent with the rest of the system's ClearType.

     

    That said, I haven't used VS2010 since the beta (and didn't use the beta that much because it was painful to look at)...  the RC could have straightened this issue out (I hope it has, or I won't be upgrading).

  • Cannot​Resolve​Symbol

    rhm said:
    figuerres said:
    *snip*

    It looks fine to me in the RC. I think some people are just against WPF on principle and will always complain no matter how good it is.

    I can identify a WPF app on sight (blurry lines, blurry images, blurry text)...  I shouldn't be able to do that; WPF should be indistinguishable from the rest of the system.

     

    WPF is an example of the complete and utter lack of polish that many people have come to expect out of Microsoft (which, IMO, isn't really deserved in most cases...  recent releases of Windows and Office have been wonderful products).  It's sad that they've moved a flagship product to WPF while it still has issues.

  • W3bbo

    CannotResolveSymbol said:
    rhm said:
    *snip*

    I can identify a WPF app on sight (blurry lines, blurry images, blurry text)...  I shouldn't be able to do that; WPF should be indistinguishable from the rest of the system.

     

    WPF is an example of the complete and utter lack of polish that many people have come to expect out of Microsoft (which, IMO, isn't really deserved in most cases...  recent releases of Windows and Office have been wonderful products).  It's sad that they've moved a flagship product to WPF while it still has issues.

    Sorry, since when did you start channeling me? Big Smile

  • spivonious

    Don't get me wrong, I love WPF and all it's features (especially the easy-as-pie databinding), but it's noticeably blurrier than GDI apps. This is on my LCD at work, my laptop LCD at home, and my desktop CRT at home (which has the best picture out of all of them). I will admit that Beta 2 and the RC are noticeably better than Beta 1, so MS is trying to fix it.

  • magicalclick

    Don't tell me RC is not as good as Beta now. I am using Beta and I am loving it because no more DPI errors. I am using 125% or 150%, the the old VS sucked at it. All the layout just crapped and they have giant text on the property panel where I can't even read the property names anymore.

     

    And this Beta works great with my current 125% DPI, finalllly...... And everything is very clear in Beta btw.

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • BitFlipper

    I think the blurry text has something to do with sub-pixel scrolling, or something (or the lack of pixel-snapping). You can see this blurryness come and go (it "pulses") when text is scrolled "smoothly" in VS 2010. Like when you scroll a list, the text is blurry then when the text finally comes to rest, it becomes sharper. Really annoying. I prefer less smooth scrolling but sharper looking fonts over smooth scrolling but blurry fonts every single time. 

     

    Maybe it is just the way that the vector scaling works in WPF but they need to find a way to get back to how good ClearType text looks in the rest of Win 7.

  • figuerres

    BitFlipper said:

    I think the blurry text has something to do with sub-pixel scrolling, or something (or the lack of pixel-snapping). You can see this blurryness come and go (it "pulses") when text is scrolled "smoothly" in VS 2010. Like when you scroll a list, the text is blurry then when the text finally comes to rest, it becomes sharper. Really annoying. I prefer less smooth scrolling but sharper looking fonts over smooth scrolling but blurry fonts every single time. 

     

    Maybe it is just the way that the vector scaling works in WPF but they need to find a way to get back to how good ClearType text looks in the rest of Win 7.

    @BitFlipper .... Might it have something to do with the text beeing "in motion" as in not alligned on a good pixel boundry when the system is trying to render that line of text?

    like an un-intened form of motion-blur ?

     

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