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There will be NO local database access for the WindowsPhone?

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  • User profile image
    DaveK

    Will a developer be able to access a local SQLCE database on the WindowsPhone? It would save alot of network traffic and keep people productive if there is no or slow network access. Can an app access data on an sd/microSD card?

     

     I got my answer:  No local database. I entered more info today at 8:21, below.

    Dave K

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    If there isn't a system-provided SQLCE database, there's no reason why you can't reference the SQLCE assemblies and manage the database file yourself.

     

    Of course, I'm more partial to SQLite, I imagine that would work too.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    It is inconceivable that a modern day device would omit a data repository, so the answer is, "yes you will be able to access CE, that is what it was made for".

  • User profile image
    DaveK

    W3bbo said:

    If there isn't a system-provided SQLCE database, there's no reason why you can't reference the SQLCE assemblies and manage the database file yourself.

     

    Of course, I'm more partial to SQLite, I imagine that would work too.

    Are you sure? Most Microsoft people I've talked to think SQL CE will not work locally on the phone from Silverlight.

     

    Thanks

    Dave K

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    DaveK said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    Are you sure? Most Microsoft people I've talked to think SQL CE will not work locally on the phone from Silverlight.

     

    Thanks

    Dave K

    Yes I am sure, because window phone would take off like a lead ballon were there not a repository. You can download the VS express with the window phone bits here if you want to investigate.

  • User profile image
    DaveK

    vesuvius said:
    DaveK said:
    *snip*

    Yes I am sure, because window phone would take off like a lead ballon were there not a repository. You can download the VS express with the window phone bits here if you want to investigate.

    It would not be the first time Microsoft released a lead balloon. I've been asking this question of Microsoft for two years. With mostly negative responses. Please do not assume it will be there just because it makes sense.  As far as I know access to SQL CE data is not part of Silverlight.

     

    Dave K

  • User profile image
    stevo_

    DaveK said:
    vesuvius said:
    *snip*

    It would not be the first time Microsoft released a lead balloon. I've been asking this question of Microsoft for two years. With mostly negative responses. Please do not assume it will be there just because it makes sense.  As far as I know access to SQL CE data is not part of Silverlight.

     

    Dave K

    But silverlight has local store anyway, so your original point about network optimization is void, you dont need sqlce, just some form of persistent storage.. which certainly exists.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    DaveK said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    Are you sure? Most Microsoft people I've talked to think SQL CE will not work locally on the phone from Silverlight.

     

    Thanks

    Dave K

    You didn't mention Silverlight in your original post, I thought you were talking about the native and Compact Framework APIs.

  • User profile image
    DaveK

    W3bbo said:
    DaveK said:
    *snip*

    You didn't mention Silverlight in your original post, I thought you were talking about the native and Compact Framework APIs.

    You are writing apps for WindowsPhone using Silverlight so if your writing for WindowsPhone your writing it using Silverlight. Unless you are writing an XNA Game. There's no Windows Forms apps in WindowsPhone.

     

    Dave K

  • User profile image
    DaveK

    stevo_ said:
    DaveK said:
    *snip*

    But silverlight has local store anyway, so your original point about network optimization is void, you dont need sqlce, just some form of persistent storage.. which certainly exists.

    Yes I can store an XML file or a delimited text file. But if I'm trying to store large amounts of data, sync it with other databases (when network availability returns) and secure it,  it is a real step backward. I don't expect to be reduced to ancient technologies on what is supposed to be a cutting edge device. I have not heard anyone yet talk about saving data to the device. Storing xml files in isolated storage does not fit my needs.

    I guess I could always use SQLite (on the IPhone/IPad).

    Dave K

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    The preliminary developer docs at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff402531(VS.92).aspx">http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff402531(VS.92).aspx seem to indicate that Isolated Storage is the only local data storage available to Windows Phone 7 apps.

     

    Also, I've seen no official mention of support for native code in 3rd party apps aside from those docs leaked a while ago, where it was said that OEMs and certain other parties would have limited access to native APIs for limited purposes.

  • User profile image
    DaveK

    DCMonkey said:

    The preliminary developer docs at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff402531(VS.92).aspx">http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff402531(VS.92).aspx seem to indicate that Isolated Storage is the only local data storage available to Windows Phone 7 apps.

     

    Also, I've seen no official mention of support for native code in 3rd party apps aside from those docs leaked a while ago, where it was said that OEMs and certain other parties would have limited access to native APIs for limited purposes.

    Thanks for the link.

    I'm thinking lead ballons for Christmas, Vesuvius.

    There are some good opportunities for developers with the new platform, but I think Enterprise developers who need to store alot of data locally on the device are out of luck. I think it's a major mistake on Microsoft's part if there is no great way to effectively store large amounts of data to the device, access data locally and sync  data with other databases. A huge catalog of products stored locally on an SD card and sync'd once in a while with a server would be a great example of app functionality that seems to be missing. I've asked the question here and two more times on twitter. So far no response. Lead Balloon?

     

    Dave K

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    DaveK said:
    DCMonkey said:
    *snip*

    Thanks for the link.

    I'm thinking lead ballons for Christmas, Vesuvius.

    There are some good opportunities for developers with the new platform, but I think Enterprise developers who need to store alot of data locally on the device are out of luck. I think it's a major mistake on Microsoft's part if there is no great way to effectively store large amounts of data to the device, access data locally and sync  data with other databases. A huge catalog of products stored locally on an SD card and sync'd once in a while with a server would be a great example of app functionality that seems to be missing. I've asked the question here and two more times on twitter. So far no response. Lead Balloon?

     

    Dave K

    I still hold the opinion that it's only Marketplace apps that are limited to Silverlight and Compact XNA, Enterprises will still get the native API, anything else would just be stupidity.

  • User profile image
    DaveK

    W3bbo said:
    DaveK said:
    *snip*

    I still hold the opinion that it's only Marketplace apps that are limited to Silverlight and Compact XNA, Enterprises will still get the native API, anything else would just be stupidity.

    If you stay with WM6. WindowsPhone is Silverlight/XNA developement only. Do you have any info that leads you to believe otherwise?

    They are saying all apps for the WindowsPhone will be distributed through the app store. Maybe some enterprise stuff in the future.

     

    Dave K

  • User profile image
    rhm

    DaveK said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    If you stay with WM6. WindowsPhone is Silverlight/XNA developement only. Do you have any info that leads you to believe otherwise?

    They are saying all apps for the WindowsPhone will be distributed through the app store. Maybe some enterprise stuff in the future.

     

    Dave K

    There is a rewrite of SQLite to C# that you might want to look into. I can't vouch for the quality of it myself, but it's going to get more attention as time goes by I'd think.

  • User profile image
    DaveK

    rhm said:
    DaveK said:
    *snip*

    There is a rewrite of SQLite to C# that you might want to look into. I can't vouch for the quality of it myself, but it's going to get more attention as time goes by I'd think.

    Thanks for the reply

    But will it run in isolated storage?

     

    I've got alot of SQL CE data access code from over 10 years of developing for WindowsMobile.

     

    I am politely requesting a response from Microsoft on how to store large amounts of hierarichal data on the WindowsPhone device so I do not have to continuously hit a server for lookup data? Network access will not always be fast enough, available or cost efficient to return data from a server.The network problems in NYC would make it obvious that bandwidth is not always available due to the increase in smartphone data transfer. I thought project Huron would have lead to WindowsPhone being released with functionality to make it easy to store SQL CE db's on the device and occasionally sync with a server. If it's just not possible please let me know. But know there already situations where your competitors pretty UI's cannot make up for slow network access. Local db access would make the app useable in low/no bandwidth situations. If you have to wait for the server user experience will be unacceptable.

     

    Dave K

  • User profile image
    DaveK

    DaveK said:
    rhm said:
    *snip*

    Thanks for the reply

    But will it run in isolated storage?

     

    I've got alot of SQL CE data access code from over 10 years of developing for WindowsMobile.

     

    I am politely requesting a response from Microsoft on how to store large amounts of hierarichal data on the WindowsPhone device so I do not have to continuously hit a server for lookup data? Network access will not always be fast enough, available or cost efficient to return data from a server.The network problems in NYC would make it obvious that bandwidth is not always available due to the increase in smartphone data transfer. I thought project Huron would have lead to WindowsPhone being released with functionality to make it easy to store SQL CE db's on the device and occasionally sync with a server. If it's just not possible please let me know. But know there already situations where your competitors pretty UI's cannot make up for slow network access. Local db access would make the app useable in low/no bandwidth situations. If you have to wait for the server user experience will be unacceptable.

     

    Dave K

    It looks like no SQL CE local database access on the phone. If you listen to the live.visitmix.com "Daily Show" 5pm webcast interview, the only way to use a db locally from Silverlight is to 1) find a database that can run in isolated storage (Not SQL CE). The example they gave was a codeplex project called SilverDB which under the covers is LINQ accessing an XML file. It sounds a little rickety to me. I hope they come up with a better, more official solution. I'd have trouble explaining how secure that data is or how performant. For me, it's a real dissapointment. I expect Microsoft will get a lot of feedback once people realize the situation. I hope Microsoft is remedying this as we speak. If you need secure, local database access for your app to run, please let Microsoft know.

     

    Dave K

  • User profile image
    DaveK

    DaveK said:
    DaveK said:
    *snip*

    It looks like no SQL CE local database access on the phone. If you listen to the live.visitmix.com "Daily Show" 5pm webcast interview, the only way to use a db locally from Silverlight is to 1) find a database that can run in isolated storage (Not SQL CE). The example they gave was a codeplex project called SilverDB which under the covers is LINQ accessing an XML file. It sounds a little rickety to me. I hope they come up with a better, more official solution. I'd have trouble explaining how secure that data is or how performant. For me, it's a real dissapointment. I expect Microsoft will get a lot of feedback once people realize the situation. I hope Microsoft is remedying this as we speak. If you need secure, local database access for your app to run, please let Microsoft know.

     

    Dave K

    And thanks to the guys, for answering my question. I am really disappointed with the answer. There are some great things in the new platform, but I think local database access is the platform's Achilles heel.

    I'll be able to write some good apps for it, just not real line of businesss, vertical market kind of stuff. Is there any advice for the appropriate platform for apps that cannot operate efficiently without a local database?

     

    Dave K

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