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Fonts for the web - now! ;)

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  • User profile image
    jamie

    old title:

     

    will IE9 include some new fonts?

     

     

    ..not even new - just at least the entire Segoe  (UI, light etc) family.

    I know it is in Vista and windows 7 and recent Offices - but it would be great to have some new web fonts...

     

    *if you remember my take on this - buy corel - add 2000 fonts for the web - free.  (installed default for windows users)

     

    =  Got windows?  the web has 2000 fonts now! (not the 20 fonts we have had for the last 15 years) - with the ONLY new ones coming from Microsoft.

     

     

    get back to your - we love fonts - web roots....

     

    if not 2000 ... at LEAST segoe family...  SOMETHING.... ANYTHING  NEW!!!!

     

    the end Tongue Out

     

     

     

    EDIT:   and if you are worried about windows (again) just make the web fonts (clean-roomed web fonts - like copeland did at corel) - not high quality enough to use for printing high res - but good enough to read on screen and print in laser / bubblejet  document formats.

     

    THEN - people still need office for high quality prinit fonts - but the web gets 2000 fonts - only in windows

     

    and last WEFT .... or WTF?     Move all that stuff out of browser and make regular "font face="whatever.ttf" call some invisible MS font DB - that ok's it

     

    on mac? sorry.  on linux? sorry.  (id make them available to all - but thats me)

     

    ie; "Today Microsft changes the web"    "MS offers - 2000 fonts for web - hurray!"   "MS leaps ahead on publishing - 2000 fonts for web"   "Not your fathers Internet anymore: MS - 2000 web fonts"

     

     

    *in other news: Google issues statement:  "there's more than one font?"    Smiley

     

     

     

  • User profile image
    jamie

    blabbing:   so pretending ms made available a HUGE font pack ... that only worked on windows (hidden activation crap - but activation for users of OTHER platforms - fine by me) ... design the fontpack so it doesnt load like normal windows fonts - 2000 fonts = pig when loaded .. so virtual ... dynamic .. insert buzzword here .. but active fonts - that become available at page load.

     

    id use them on websites.  id tell all my friends to get the new MS font pack thing...

     

    i bet more would do the same...

    all of a sufdden we'd have the web looking cooler (more fonts) and only win users would get it.

     

    i just dont see a prob with that...  sure its a bit old school doves slivka era style ...  but the end result is tons of sites that work best in windows...

     

    all for michael copeland style clean room of true type fonts - with similar names

     

    That would be huge news... for CSS fans especially

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    Given the almost inevitable certainty that IE9 will only run on Vista and Windows 7, both of which have Segoe by default, it seems unnecessary to bundle it in any way. Although writing web pages which rely on a specific font that is only available on a single platform seems to defeat the point somewhat.

     

    And Windows (along with numerous Windows apps) would probably need some re-engineering to cope well with 2000 fonts because as it stands it doesn't work so well if you have that many installed. Although I'd question the value to most people of having that many fonts available. You're either going to get a lot of shoddy fonts leading to poor quality documents, or you're going to spend a lot of money developing high quality fonts that almost nobody ever uses.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    AndyC said:

    Given the almost inevitable certainty that IE9 will only run on Vista and Windows 7, both of which have Segoe by default, it seems unnecessary to bundle it in any way. Although writing web pages which rely on a specific font that is only available on a single platform seems to defeat the point somewhat.

     

    And Windows (along with numerous Windows apps) would probably need some re-engineering to cope well with 2000 fonts because as it stands it doesn't work so well if you have that many installed. Although I'd question the value to most people of having that many fonts available. You're either going to get a lot of shoddy fonts leading to poor quality documents, or you're going to spend a lot of money developing high quality fonts that almost nobody ever uses.

    ..true - but just in defence of fonts - i have always had 3000 fonts loaded - at all times - since - windows 95.

     

    it really isnt ...that bad.  ive used font minder and corels font thing - but really i just drag them in to /fonts folder and i have all the fonts i need - at anytime.

     

    so for me - its been years..decades of loading tons of fonts...  isnt it time computers (windows computers) came with all the fonts you could ever want - and "fix" the internet along the way?

     

    i vote yes!  (im sure many will shudder at the possible mis-uses of many fonts (like 10 fonts a page) ...

    i think most people would stick to one or  2 a page... and hey - they wouldnt be verdana or tahoma or arial or georgia or impact or ....

    COMIC SANS!

     

     

    ps - i think computers today can MORE than handle the number of default win fonts  quadruple them x ...alot Smiley

  • User profile image
    stevo_

    I doubt you've got 3000 fonts loaded, load more than a couple of hundred in and you start to get serious issues with apps font rendering.

     

    Also why would having added fonts be a good thing? pointless... you can today quite easily embed fonts in various different ways, which are getting progressively more standard as well.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    stevo_ said:

    I doubt you've got 3000 fonts loaded, load more than a couple of hundred in and you start to get serious issues with apps font rendering.

     

    Also why would having added fonts be a good thing? pointless... you can today quite easily embed fonts in various different ways, which are getting progressively more standard as well.

     

    ok - i have 1700 - but i think thats cause win7 groups fonts into families...

     

    Generic Forum Image

     

     

    even still ... 1700 ... 1000 ....   500!

     

    lets move on from 50! (real/actaul/useable ... 25ish)

     

    edit - half decent ... 15 ....  good 10  ... real good ...5.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    AndyC said:

    Given the almost inevitable certainty that IE9 will only run on Vista and Windows 7, both of which have Segoe by default, it seems unnecessary to bundle it in any way. Although writing web pages which rely on a specific font that is only available on a single platform seems to defeat the point somewhat.

     

    And Windows (along with numerous Windows apps) would probably need some re-engineering to cope well with 2000 fonts because as it stands it doesn't work so well if you have that many installed. Although I'd question the value to most people of having that many fonts available. You're either going to get a lot of shoddy fonts leading to poor quality documents, or you're going to spend a lot of money developing high quality fonts that almost nobody ever uses.

    What are the odds of IE9 being made available for Windows XP? There's still enough XP users to make it worthwhile (compared to the miniscule number of Win2K and 98 users by the time IE7 came out). If Microsoft gets CSS3 support 'right' in IE9 then I won't feel so bad if IE10 is Vista/Win7-only.

     

     

  • User profile image
    jamie

    W3bbo said:
    AndyC said:
    *snip*

    What are the odds of IE9 being made available for Windows XP? There's still enough XP users to make it worthwhile (compared to the miniscule number of Win2K and 98 users by the time IE7 came out). If Microsoft gets CSS3 support 'right' in IE9 then I won't feel so bad if IE10 is Vista/Win7-only.

     

     

    i think new ie's should be avail for xp / 2k.  just limit a few features... but the core parts should be avail

    ?

     

     

    ps best win fonts:  arial, verdana, tahoma, georgia, lucida sans

    best new win font (vista/7/office) segoe UI (family)

    Internet with 1700 fonts.... priceless (to ms)  Tongue Out 

     

     

     

    edit: maybe they arnt .ttf... they are ...   arial.ie  = windows only  ie only  Wink

     

     

    ..or  arial.win   (FF, safari, chrome = sure - but running on win)

     

     

    * i "hear" MS Word re-translates .win fonts... output perfectly...

  • User profile image
    jamie

    jamie said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    i think new ie's should be avail for xp / 2k.  just limit a few features... but the core parts should be avail

    ?

     

     

    ps best win fonts:  arial, verdana, tahoma, georgia, lucida sans

    best new win font (vista/7/office) segoe UI (family)

    Internet with 1700 fonts.... priceless (to ms)  Tongue Out 

     

     

     

    edit: maybe they arnt .ttf... they are ...   arial.ie  = windows only  ie only  Wink

     

     

    ..or  arial.win   (FF, safari, chrome = sure - but running on win)

     

     

    * i "hear" MS Word re-translates .win fonts... output perfectly...

    in closing:

     

    it is an old idea - now with evil built right in ( win only .. good evil Wink

     

    please - lets have more than .... 20 fonts for the web.  you can make this happen MS...

     

    Generic Forum Image

     

     

    </end>

  • User profile image
    toth3max

    jamie said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    i think new ie's should be avail for xp / 2k.  just limit a few features... but the core parts should be avail

    ?

     

     

    ps best win fonts:  arial, verdana, tahoma, georgia, lucida sans

    best new win font (vista/7/office) segoe UI (family)

    Internet with 1700 fonts.... priceless (to ms)  Tongue Out 

     

     

     

    edit: maybe they arnt .ttf... they are ...   arial.ie  = windows only  ie only  Wink

     

     

    ..or  arial.win   (FF, safari, chrome = sure - but running on win)

     

     

    * i "hear" MS Word re-translates .win fonts... output perfectly...

    I don't think everyone needs to have a local copy of each and every font. There are other ways to serve fonts over the web like typekit.com and similar services. 

     

    It's really nice to be able to use quality fonts and have them working in all popular browsers. The next frontier will be mobile. And what I've heard so far about IE on Windows Phone 7 scares the hell out of me. I hope for some good announcements in tomorrows keynote. Please don't launch WP7 in Q4 2010 with a 4 year old browser!

  • User profile image
    jamie

    toth3max said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*

    I don't think everyone needs to have a local copy of each and every font. There are other ways to serve fonts over the web like typekit.com and similar services. 

     

    It's really nice to be able to use quality fonts and have them working in all popular browsers. The next frontier will be mobile. And what I've heard so far about IE on Windows Phone 7 scares the hell out of me. I hope for some good announcements in tomorrows keynote. Please don't launch WP7 in Q4 2010 with a 4 year old browser!

    <new>

     

    so ... ie9 marketing.

     

    what this time... the web easier again?  better parental controls?  a few more bizzare web snippet holders?

     

    why not - IE9 - 500 fonts - the new internet!

     

    ...or something like that Smiley

     

     

    edit:  900 fonts!  Wink

  • User profile image
    Bass

    jamie said:
    toth3max said:
    *snip*

    <new>

     

    so ... ie9 marketing.

     

    what this time... the web easier again?  better parental controls?  a few more bizzare web snippet holders?

     

    why not - IE9 - 500 fonts - the new internet!

     

    ...or something like that Smiley

     

     

    edit:  900 fonts!  Wink

    This problem of limited fonts has already been solved

     

    Go to the following site with basically any web browser other then Internet Explorer:

     

    http://www.opentype.info/demo/webfontdemo.html

     

    IE9 will probably support font embedding in this manner.

     

  • User profile image
    jamie

    jamie said:
    toth3max said:
    *snip*

    <new>

     

    so ... ie9 marketing.

     

    what this time... the web easier again?  better parental controls?  a few more bizzare web snippet holders?

     

    why not - IE9 - 500 fonts - the new internet!

     

    ...or something like that Smiley

     

     

    edit:  900 fonts!  Wink

    fastest way:

    buy corel

    2nd fastest way -

    licence corel font library ( or buy it ) perpetual use - no limits

     

     

    then re-encode to .win "web" format / dynamic / win only

  • User profile image
    jamie

    Bass said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*

    This problem of limited fonts has already been solved

     

    Go to the following site with basically any web browser other then Internet Explorer:

     

    http://www.opentype.info/demo/webfontdemo.html

     

    IE9 will probably support font embedding in this manner.

     

    "other than internet explorer"

     

    lol

     

     

    ** there is also the matter of ... "announcing"   500 fonts for the web

     

     

    ms should be the one

     

    not some... open consortium.... Wink

     

     

    what about ... arial.net  ... impact.net  .. humanist bd.net...   web fonts only?

  • User profile image
    stun

    W3bbo said:
    AndyC said:
    *snip*

    What are the odds of IE9 being made available for Windows XP? There's still enough XP users to make it worthwhile (compared to the miniscule number of Win2K and 98 users by the time IE7 came out). If Microsoft gets CSS3 support 'right' in IE9 then I won't feel so bad if IE10 is Vista/Win7-only.

     

     

    Considering the D2D rendering which is only available in Vista and Win7, we probably won't see IE9 for Windows XP.

    http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Charles/IE-9-Surfing-on-the-GPU-with-D2D/

  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    How about some jiggly type?

  • User profile image
    jamie

    JoshRoss said:

    How about some jiggly type?

    lol

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    W3bbo said:
    AndyC said:
    *snip*

    What are the odds of IE9 being made available for Windows XP? There's still enough XP users to make it worthwhile (compared to the miniscule number of Win2K and 98 users by the time IE7 came out). If Microsoft gets CSS3 support 'right' in IE9 then I won't feel so bad if IE10 is Vista/Win7-only.

     

     

    W3bbo said:
    What are the odds of IE9 being made available for Windows XP?

    Obviously I don't have any specific knowledge, but I'd say it's incredibly slim. Even putting the new Direct2D rendering to one side, XP is a dead OS as far as Microsoft are concerned, limping out the last of it's support lifecycle. It's in pretty much the exact same position Windows 2000 was when IE7 was released. Focusing development effort on backporting to XP seems unlikely to be worth it.

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