Coffeehouse Thread

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  • User profile image
    blowdart

     

  • User profile image
    davewill

    LOVE IT! (except for the little one that doesn't get to see daddy)

  • User profile image
    Human​Compiler

    Sad that every single one of those is true in lots of shops.  Sad

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    I really hate it when the requirements change.

     

    Even now after all this time developing software. I tend to spend a heck of a lot of time thinking about an alogorithm, only for someone at a whim to say "we want it to work this way"

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    vesuvius said:

    I really hate it when the requirements change.

     

    Even now after all this time developing software. I tend to spend a heck of a lot of time thinking about an alogorithm, only for someone at a whim to say "we want it to work this way"

    That's why you get the people who give you the requirements to sign an Affidavit.

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    ScottWelker

    Outstanding! Thanks!

    Ture dat'... an instant classic Smiley

  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    W3bbo said:
    vesuvius said:
    *snip*

    That's why you get the people who give you the requirements to sign an Affidavit.

    Even that isn't always enough W3...

    An attorney client confronted with his signed (and reviewed?) requirements document said... wait for it... "that's just a piece of paper" - groan.

    Requirements Management - the bane of our existence Smiley

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    ScottWelker said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    Even that isn't always enough W3...

    An attorney client confronted with his signed (and reviewed?) requirements document said... wait for it... "that's just a piece of paper" - groan.

    Requirements Management - the bane of our existence Smiley

    To add to this " the people who give me requirements" vary greatly. In most circumstances it is the Architect of the project i.e. your boss so it is unlikely you would tell them that you are inflexible. In other circumstances it is the customer that changes the goalposts, and they usually have the hump that they are paying you all this money, and if you cannot make changes then their product will fail. It is a delicate balance of them always being right and ingratiating them, whilst spitting blood privately.

     

    A lot of the time, the software you write ends up being quite different from what was originally conceived because other (mostly better) ways present themselves. The bigger picture is that the changes requested are usually for the best, and show incorrect judgement at the projects inception. If you accept that architects/lead developers have no crystal ball either then you make the changes that are required, but it is really painful to discard something you have been working on at a whim, or change it significantly because the scope for introducing bugs increases due to the fact that you have to start thinking completely differently and usually things are running late and you end up doing what I am doing now, working at the weekend.

     

     

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    I'm glad we write internal software. No pesky clients to deal with, and if requirements change I know about it immediately.

  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    vesuvius said:
    ScottWelker said:
    *snip*

    To add to this " the people who give me requirements" vary greatly. In most circumstances it is the Architect of the project i.e. your boss so it is unlikely you would tell them that you are inflexible. In other circumstances it is the customer that changes the goalposts, and they usually have the hump that they are paying you all this money, and if you cannot make changes then their product will fail. It is a delicate balance of them always being right and ingratiating them, whilst spitting blood privately.

     

    A lot of the time, the software you write ends up being quite different from what was originally conceived because other (mostly better) ways present themselves. The bigger picture is that the changes requested are usually for the best, and show incorrect judgement at the projects inception. If you accept that architects/lead developers have no crystal ball either then you make the changes that are required, but it is really painful to discard something you have been working on at a whim, or change it significantly because the scope for introducing bugs increases due to the fact that you have to start thinking completely differently and usually things are running late and you end up doing what I am doing now, working at the weekend.

     

     

    Yep Vesuvius, achieving and maintaining a consistent requirements understanding (internally and externally) is quite the high wire act Smiley

    You MUST be flexible because the real world simply isn’t cast in concrete. However, as someone once quipped in a design meeting, “you can’t become so flexible that you can’t stand” Smiley

  • User profile image
    Human​Compiler

    ScottWelker said:
    vesuvius said:
    *snip*

    Yep Vesuvius, achieving and maintaining a consistent requirements understanding (internally and externally) is quite the high wire act Smiley

    You MUST be flexible because the real world simply isn’t cast in concrete. However, as someone once quipped in a design meeting, “you can’t become so flexible that you can’t stand” Smiley

    Yup.  Middle of the road is always best.

  • User profile image
    dahat

    W3bbo said:
    vesuvius said:
    *snip*

    That's why you get the people who give you the requirements to sign an Affidavit.

    Except for the fact that in many cases... those same people are those who sign your paycheck (in the case of internal development).

     

    Heck... at an old job years ago, we used to joke that "We could have Al sign off in blood on a set of requirements... that wouldn’t matter a week later"... Al being the president and co-owner of the company (the other owner (and brother) was head of HR).

     

    Granted... this was a company I left eventually in part due to a a disagreement over a ‘contract’ which involved a piece of paper which had a set of terms and conditions... my signature, that of the department manager, and that of the president... which HR referred to as an 'implied contract'.

     

    (Grrrr... this reminds me that I've once again (for the 3rd year in a row) forgotten a new holiday I plan to start... 'implied contracts day' which is to be celebrated on March 1st)

     

    Unless you are dealing with fully external entities who sign off on something and with enough contractual verbiage to enforce said sign off... most projects are rather easy to have shaken up and radically changed dang fast.

     

    Edit: Wait a second... HC... I understand why you don't have the C9 tag at the bottom of your post... but have you left MSFT? Or has someone on the C9 team opted not to tag you as a 'softie without warning yet (as they did me).

  • User profile image
    Bas

    Oh wow, the one about the consultants. The pain. The terrible pain.

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    ScanIAm

    I just spent the last 33 days straight with no days off to fix a potentially doomed project, and after finally returning to the project I was supposed to be working on, the PM suggested that adding more developers would be a good way to make my (now behind) project successful.

     

    Generic Forum Image

  • User profile image
    Pace

    ScanIAm said:

    I just spent the last 33 days straight with no days off to fix a potentially doomed project, and after finally returning to the project I was supposed to be working on, the PM suggested that adding more developers would be a good way to make my (now behind) project successful.

     

    Generic Forum Image

    hehe give him a copy of MMM

  • User profile image
    rhm

    Pace said:
    ScanIAm said:
    *snip*

    hehe give him a copy of MMM

    Don't, just hit him with it.

     

    (nobody actually read that did they? It's like the Ulysses of the IT world.)

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