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Zune HD 64?

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  • User profile image
    Ray7

    Odd. 

     

    An Engadget reader has spotted a subtle change to the Zune website, indicating that a 64GB model might be in the works. So does this mean the Zune is still alive, or is MS just milking a few more customers before they call it 'a learning experience' and can it?

     

     

     

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    What ever gave you the idea the Zune was dead?

  • User profile image
    rhm

    wkempf said:

    What ever gave you the idea the Zune was dead?

    There is a thought that the current Zune line will be canned and replaced with a non-phone-WindowsPhone7 type device (like the iPod touch). Basically because it makes no sense to carry on with a product line that won't benefit from any of the 3rd party innovation on the WP7. But then again, this is Microsoft...

  • User profile image
    RLO

    This is not a big surprise.  There have been rumors of this device since the Zune HD launched in September of 2009.  What is a bigger question is if this is the "last" model alluded to by Terry Farrell in an interview with Mary Jo Foley or if there will be model that is WP7S OS?

     

    I have been an ardent Zune supporter since the launch in 2006, and the recent moves by MS has not increased my confidence in the platform.  Looking at everything with hindsight, it appears that this was the plan in place in 2008 prior to the reorg of Winmo and Zune.  They never planned to make WP7S when the plans were locked down for this generation of devices.  Now that things have changed, they are still marching on with the plans made prior to the merging of the Zune team with WinMo.  That's very inflexible in a market that demands flexibility.

     

    It would be very appreciative if the Zune team was more upfront with some of their device plans and strategy instead of "ignoring" the public and saying just wait.  I have grown tired of "just wait".  That strategy may work for Apple, but it doesn't work for Microsoft.  If it did, then Zune players would be flying off the shelves in droves instead of gathering dust.

     

    Without any long term plans and just relying on what has occurred, I don't see how anyone can't think that the Zune Device is dead. 

     

    The facts that have been revealed so far:

     

    One more device generation.

    No App Marketplace and no known plans to create one.

    Current Zune HD dev tools are not available to the public.

    XNA Development stops with 3.1 on the Zune HD.

    Will not backport WP7S OS to the Zune HD.

     

    I don't know about anyone else, but the facts that it appears that there will be no forward support of the device barring basic firmware updates feels like the current device is dead to me less than six months after release.

  • User profile image
    Dovella

    RLO said:

    This is not a big surprise.  There have been rumors of this device since the Zune HD launched in September of 2009.  What is a bigger question is if this is the "last" model alluded to by Terry Farrell in an interview with Mary Jo Foley or if there will be model that is WP7S OS?

     

    I have been an ardent Zune supporter since the launch in 2006, and the recent moves by MS has not increased my confidence in the platform.  Looking at everything with hindsight, it appears that this was the plan in place in 2008 prior to the reorg of Winmo and Zune.  They never planned to make WP7S when the plans were locked down for this generation of devices.  Now that things have changed, they are still marching on with the plans made prior to the merging of the Zune team with WinMo.  That's very inflexible in a market that demands flexibility.

     

    It would be very appreciative if the Zune team was more upfront with some of their device plans and strategy instead of "ignoring" the public and saying just wait.  I have grown tired of "just wait".  That strategy may work for Apple, but it doesn't work for Microsoft.  If it did, then Zune players would be flying off the shelves in droves instead of gathering dust.

     

    Without any long term plans and just relying on what has occurred, I don't see how anyone can't think that the Zune Device is dead. 

     

    The facts that have been revealed so far:

     

    One more device generation.

    No App Marketplace and no known plans to create one.

    Current Zune HD dev tools are not available to the public.

    XNA Development stops with 3.1 on the Zune HD.

    Will not backport WP7S OS to the Zune HD.

     

    I don't know about anyone else, but the facts that it appears that there will be no forward support of the device barring basic firmware updates feels like the current device is dead to me less than six months after release.

    this is true but..

     

    Zune is Amazing Device , I Love my Zune HD.

    I took this with a different philosophy.
    My Zune HD is the best  media player with no future in this device, however, will have better life in mobile.

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    rhm said:
    wkempf said:
    *snip*

    There is a thought that the current Zune line will be canned and replaced with a non-phone-WindowsPhone7 type device (like the iPod touch). Basically because it makes no sense to carry on with a product line that won't benefit from any of the 3rd party innovation on the WP7. But then again, this is Microsoft...

    There's no indication that the supposed 64 bit device in the works isn't a WP7 based Zune. The Zune isn't going to die because of WP7, though it's very likely it will start to be WP7 based.

     

    Edit: Nevermind. This is specifically a Zune HD. Which does mean it won't be WP7. However, Ray7 talked about the Zune being dead, which is a different topic. The Zune isn't dead.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    wkempf said:
    rhm said:
    *snip*

    There's no indication that the supposed 64 bit device in the works isn't a WP7 based Zune. The Zune isn't going to die because of WP7, though it's very likely it will start to be WP7 based.

     

    Edit: Nevermind. This is specifically a Zune HD. Which does mean it won't be WP7. However, Ray7 talked about the Zune being dead, which is a different topic. The Zune isn't dead.

    I usually think a product is dead when the manufacturer stops developing it, even if they're still selling it. I certainly wouldn't buy a Zune now, even if it was available in the UK.

  • User profile image
    OrigamiCar

    rhm said:
    wkempf said:
    *snip*

    There is a thought that the current Zune line will be canned and replaced with a non-phone-WindowsPhone7 type device (like the iPod touch). Basically because it makes no sense to carry on with a product line that won't benefit from any of the 3rd party innovation on the WP7. But then again, this is Microsoft...

    I'm actually wondering if once the WP7 phones get released and the rumored Zune HD2 (with presumably a modified WP7 OS - in otherwords more like an iPod touch) also gets released, will MS upgrade the OS on the Zune HD's to suit via a firmware update? Can't really think of any reason for them not to do this - the internals should be able to power it and they did it in the past, upgrading the original zune OS via an update to make it reasonably consistant with the newer 'squircle' zune v2's.

     

    Pure speculation on my part, but I would be shocked if they didn't do this come the end of the year...

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    Ray7 said:
    wkempf said:
    *snip*

    I usually think a product is dead when the manufacturer stops developing it, even if they're still selling it. I certainly wouldn't buy a Zune now, even if it was available in the UK.

    Zune's are still being developed, as evidenced by the Zune HD 64. So I'm back to my original question: What ever gave you the idea the Zune was dead? The only rumor I've seen has been about the WP7 OS meaning the end of life for the Zune OS (which makes sense, but isn't confirmed). But that's strictly about the OS, not the hardware. It doesn't make sense for Microsoft to drop the Zune hardware, though future models, if they are WP7 based, would require different hardware. Dropping the Zune because of WP7 would make about as much sense as Apple dropping the iPod when the iPhone came out. Didn't happen. Instead, you got the iTouch. You can expect the same thing here, with a new Zune model released somewhere in the same time frame as the WP7, using the WP7 OS.

     

    As for buying a Zune now... that depends on what you want out of a device. If you want to combine phone and media player devices into one, obviously you should wait or look at a different device. If you want to play games and run other software, you should probably also look elsewhere or wait. If you just want a good media player, there's no reason to wait. I do think this means that Microsoft may have hurt sales for the Zune, but as a consumer I appreciate that they gave me the info I need to decide.

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    OrigamiCar said:
    rhm said:
    *snip*

    I'm actually wondering if once the WP7 phones get released and the rumored Zune HD2 (with presumably a modified WP7 OS - in otherwords more like an iPod touch) also gets released, will MS upgrade the OS on the Zune HD's to suit via a firmware update? Can't really think of any reason for them not to do this - the internals should be able to power it and they did it in the past, upgrading the original zune OS via an update to make it reasonably consistant with the newer 'squircle' zune v2's.

     

    Pure speculation on my part, but I would be shocked if they didn't do this come the end of the year...

    I don't think that will work, as the WP7 OS requires certain hardware specs that the Zune doesn't have (mostly to do with the buttons). The same reason you can't upgrade most existing WinMo devices to WP7 applies equally to the current Zune devices.

  • User profile image
    RLO

    Dovella said:
    RLO said:
    *snip*

    this is true but..

     

    Zune is Amazing Device , I Love my Zune HD.

    I took this with a different philosophy.
    My Zune HD is the best  media player with no future in this device, however, will have better life in mobile.

    Dovella, I agree.  I love my ZuneHD.

     

    Wkempf, I understand your point of view, but I wouldn't describe a capacity bump the grounds for active development.  You may appreciate MS letting you know now that the WP7S OS won't be backported, I myself would have appreciated that information back in September when it was launched.

     

    The Zune team has in the past been very successful in pushing the device platform forward with constant firmware and software updates.  I will give them credit there.  Unfortunately, they have created a pattern that users expect to see with most models having functional upgrades added years after the initial purchase.  They soured some people with the Zune HD because features weren't backported to the older models.  I was one of the few that understood the decision that you have to eventually break the firmware upgrade cycle when new devices call for it.  It had been three years since the original device was released and it was time to let go to move forward to the future.  Now, six months into the lifespan of the Zune HD, the future has been announced and its WP7S.  Unfortunately, the current devices won't move forward into that future.  I am more than a little disappointed in that.  Instead of having a three year lifespan or two year lifespan, there is a year lifespan. 

     

    All of these problems could have been solved by the Zune team and Management speaking up about the device, roadmap, and future plans for making the device competitive.  You can't tell me that they didn't know what was going to happen in regards to WP7S and ZuneHD.

     

    Now if you say it was a good business practice to keep quiet about this and maximize sales for the device, I will agree with you.  Although it's a good business decision what does it really say about how MS has treated its customers.  To me it says: They won't technically lie and tell you something different, but will conveniently leave out information so as to take your money in exchange for a product that has no future because they changed their minds about the roadmap.

     

    If I am wrong in my conclusions, I would invite the Zune team to step forward and speak up.  I want to know why this device isn't dead.  I don't want to hear about  the "spring update" either.  What is the future roadmap, what makes a Zune device a good investment today and in the future?  Why should anyone buy a Zune when they can buy a WP7S? 

     

    I don't expect to hear a word, and expect any information to be coyly delivered.  Can't we get a little "Straight Talk" about this device and platform?

     

     

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    RLO said:
    Dovella said:
    *snip*

    Dovella, I agree.  I love my ZuneHD.

     

    Wkempf, I understand your point of view, but I wouldn't describe a capacity bump the grounds for active development.  You may appreciate MS letting you know now that the WP7S OS won't be backported, I myself would have appreciated that information back in September when it was launched.

     

    The Zune team has in the past been very successful in pushing the device platform forward with constant firmware and software updates.  I will give them credit there.  Unfortunately, they have created a pattern that users expect to see with most models having functional upgrades added years after the initial purchase.  They soured some people with the Zune HD because features weren't backported to the older models.  I was one of the few that understood the decision that you have to eventually break the firmware upgrade cycle when new devices call for it.  It had been three years since the original device was released and it was time to let go to move forward to the future.  Now, six months into the lifespan of the Zune HD, the future has been announced and its WP7S.  Unfortunately, the current devices won't move forward into that future.  I am more than a little disappointed in that.  Instead of having a three year lifespan or two year lifespan, there is a year lifespan. 

     

    All of these problems could have been solved by the Zune team and Management speaking up about the device, roadmap, and future plans for making the device competitive.  You can't tell me that they didn't know what was going to happen in regards to WP7S and ZuneHD.

     

    Now if you say it was a good business practice to keep quiet about this and maximize sales for the device, I will agree with you.  Although it's a good business decision what does it really say about how MS has treated its customers.  To me it says: They won't technically lie and tell you something different, but will conveniently leave out information so as to take your money in exchange for a product that has no future because they changed their minds about the roadmap.

     

    If I am wrong in my conclusions, I would invite the Zune team to step forward and speak up.  I want to know why this device isn't dead.  I don't want to hear about  the "spring update" either.  What is the future roadmap, what makes a Zune device a good investment today and in the future?  Why should anyone buy a Zune when they can buy a WP7S? 

     

    I don't expect to hear a word, and expect any information to be coyly delivered.  Can't we get a little "Straight Talk" about this device and platform?

     

     

    They may not have known that the Zune hardware would be incompatible with WP7 until late in the development cycle. After all, the big breaking point is the requirement for 3 buttons on the device, and that's something they may have decided on late. Regardless, whether they knew or not, it's amazing that they've let the cat out of the bag this early. To have done so when the Zune HD came out wouldn't have made any sense. I can understand being soured about this situation, however. I will point out, though, that the lifespan of the Zune HD isn't 1 year. It will likely continue to be supported much longer than that, even though the WP7 OS won't be back ported. You got what you paid for, and will continue to have what you paid for for the lifetime of the hardware. All that you won't be getting is the new OS. Like I said before, if you don't need a phone and are only interested in playing media files, investing in the current Zune models is certainly not a wasted investment.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    wkempf said:
    Ray7 said:
    *snip*

    Zune's are still being developed, as evidenced by the Zune HD 64. So I'm back to my original question: What ever gave you the idea the Zune was dead? The only rumor I've seen has been about the WP7 OS meaning the end of life for the Zune OS (which makes sense, but isn't confirmed). But that's strictly about the OS, not the hardware. It doesn't make sense for Microsoft to drop the Zune hardware, though future models, if they are WP7 based, would require different hardware. Dropping the Zune because of WP7 would make about as much sense as Apple dropping the iPod when the iPhone came out. Didn't happen. Instead, you got the iTouch. You can expect the same thing here, with a new Zune model released somewhere in the same time frame as the WP7, using the WP7 OS.

     

    As for buying a Zune now... that depends on what you want out of a device. If you want to combine phone and media player devices into one, obviously you should wait or look at a different device. If you want to play games and run other software, you should probably also look elsewhere or wait. If you just want a good media player, there's no reason to wait. I do think this means that Microsoft may have hurt sales for the Zune, but as a consumer I appreciate that they gave me the info I need to decide.

    Well, I don't actually see dropping in an extra slab of memory as being developed, unless it comes with new functionality. Does it? I also don't see the iPod Classic line as being developed simply because Apple adds a bigger hard disk. 

     

    wkempf said:
    Instead, you got the iTouch. You can expect the same thing here, with a new Zune model released somewhere in the same time frame as the WP7, using the WP7 OS.

     

    Well, I'll believe it when I see it. And I haven't even mentioned the fact that in most of the world, the Zune never actually came to life, so I guess it couldn't really die.

     

    wkempf said:
    As for buying a Zune now... that depends on what you want out of a device. If you want to combine phone and media player devices into one, obviously you should wait or look at a different device. If you want to play games and run other software, you should probably also look elsewhere or wait. If you just want a good media player, there's no reason to wait. I do think this means that Microsoft may have hurt sales for the Zune, but as a consumer I appreciate that they gave me the info I need to decide.

     

    What I look for is a device supported in the country I live in, for starters. That doesn't look like it's happening with the Zune. Now it's possible they could plan to keep it going forever as a US only product – I just don't see it.

     

     

     

     

     

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    RLO said:
    Dovella said:
    *snip*

    Dovella, I agree.  I love my ZuneHD.

     

    Wkempf, I understand your point of view, but I wouldn't describe a capacity bump the grounds for active development.  You may appreciate MS letting you know now that the WP7S OS won't be backported, I myself would have appreciated that information back in September when it was launched.

     

    The Zune team has in the past been very successful in pushing the device platform forward with constant firmware and software updates.  I will give them credit there.  Unfortunately, they have created a pattern that users expect to see with most models having functional upgrades added years after the initial purchase.  They soured some people with the Zune HD because features weren't backported to the older models.  I was one of the few that understood the decision that you have to eventually break the firmware upgrade cycle when new devices call for it.  It had been three years since the original device was released and it was time to let go to move forward to the future.  Now, six months into the lifespan of the Zune HD, the future has been announced and its WP7S.  Unfortunately, the current devices won't move forward into that future.  I am more than a little disappointed in that.  Instead of having a three year lifespan or two year lifespan, there is a year lifespan. 

     

    All of these problems could have been solved by the Zune team and Management speaking up about the device, roadmap, and future plans for making the device competitive.  You can't tell me that they didn't know what was going to happen in regards to WP7S and ZuneHD.

     

    Now if you say it was a good business practice to keep quiet about this and maximize sales for the device, I will agree with you.  Although it's a good business decision what does it really say about how MS has treated its customers.  To me it says: They won't technically lie and tell you something different, but will conveniently leave out information so as to take your money in exchange for a product that has no future because they changed their minds about the roadmap.

     

    If I am wrong in my conclusions, I would invite the Zune team to step forward and speak up.  I want to know why this device isn't dead.  I don't want to hear about  the "spring update" either.  What is the future roadmap, what makes a Zune device a good investment today and in the future?  Why should anyone buy a Zune when they can buy a WP7S? 

     

    I don't expect to hear a word, and expect any information to be coyly delivered.  Can't we get a little "Straight Talk" about this device and platform?

     

     

    Pretty much what I wish I'd said ....  Expressionless

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    I thought they made it clear? No Zune Phone, Zune Experience on WinMo (aka WinPh), and provide Zune service. From all these facts, they leads to my assumption that Zune hardware will deliever core Zune experience without phone capability. No Zune Phone. But that doesn't mean, no Zune hardware.

     

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    Red5

    Dang. I have two zune hd 32's, because I have so much content I like to have available wherever I go.

    Oh well....

    I hope they keep the zune platform alive. I think it's a great product. I wish Microsoft would get their act together on the marketing plan for zune.  Their product placement and availability is not very good.

  • User profile image
    RLO

    magicalclick said:

    I thought they made it clear? No Zune Phone, Zune Experience on WinMo (aka WinPh), and provide Zune service. From all these facts, they leads to my assumption that Zune hardware will deliever core Zune experience without phone capability. No Zune Phone. But that doesn't mean, no Zune hardware.

     

     

    Magical, I can appreciate what you are trying to say, but the statements as I mentioned before were very coy.  There is no "Zune Phone", but if it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.  It must be a duck, or in this case a Zune Phone.  Now, they were very precise in how they termed everything to let the public think that WP7S was going to look like the shots leaked in 2008 instead of looking like a Zune device.  It was brillant strategy, because we were all surprised with the reveal.  Although it helped keep the changes secret and surprisingly fresh, it was still misleading and with real consequences to those that bought the ZuneHD.  In the end, they let the consumers think one thing and never adjusted that perception until the end.

    Do I like what they have done? Yes.  Do I like how they treated me as a customer? No. Will I get over it?  Maybe.

     

    Wkempf, if they developed the requirement for three buttons after the fact, I hope someone was complaining to high-heaven about shafting current WinMo customers and stiring up a reaction from the Zune community.  I don't see what's is so special about having three buttons except as an excuse not to backport to older devices. 

     

    Red5, I don't believe the platform will die, I just believe it will be taking a new turn.  I have voiced this in other places, but Zune could become PlaysforSure part II in which they let Zune DRM be added to third party players not manufactured by Microsoft.  It wouldn't be too hard to turn over the device manufacturing to the same companies doing the phones and thus relieve MS the burden of manufacturing and focusing on the software+services side of things.

     

    With Zune added as part of the Xbox blade, I can feel certain they are in the content distribution business for the long run.

  • User profile image
    Red5

    RLO said:
    magicalclick said:
    *snip*

    Magical, I can appreciate what you are trying to say, but the statements as I mentioned before were very coy.  There is no "Zune Phone", but if it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.  It must be a duck, or in this case a Zune Phone.  Now, they were very precise in how they termed everything to let the public think that WP7S was going to look like the shots leaked in 2008 instead of looking like a Zune device.  It was brillant strategy, because we were all surprised with the reveal.  Although it helped keep the changes secret and surprisingly fresh, it was still misleading and with real consequences to those that bought the ZuneHD.  In the end, they let the consumers think one thing and never adjusted that perception until the end.

    Do I like what they have done? Yes.  Do I like how they treated me as a customer? No. Will I get over it?  Maybe.

     

    Wkempf, if they developed the requirement for three buttons after the fact, I hope someone was complaining to high-heaven about shafting current WinMo customers and stiring up a reaction from the Zune community.  I don't see what's is so special about having three buttons except as an excuse not to backport to older devices. 

     

    Red5, I don't believe the platform will die, I just believe it will be taking a new turn.  I have voiced this in other places, but Zune could become PlaysforSure part II in which they let Zune DRM be added to third party players not manufactured by Microsoft.  It wouldn't be too hard to turn over the device manufacturing to the same companies doing the phones and thus relieve MS the burden of manufacturing and focusing on the software+services side of things.

     

    With Zune added as part of the Xbox blade, I can feel certain they are in the content distribution business for the long run.

    my "Dang.." was more for me having to carry two devices instead of one Sad

     

    Looks like it's official:  http://zuneinsider.com/archive/2010/03/31/zune-hd-64gb-coming-april-12.aspx

     

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