Coffeehouse Thread

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When will this happen?

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  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    I remember my first computer from 1998. It was a Dell that ran Windows 98. One time, I upped the resolution to 1024x768 from 800x600 expecting more detail, instead everything on the screen became smaller and retained the same detail. On my screen, that seriously messed things up as it required me manually fit the screen to the monitor's borders but that isn't the point...

    I now know that increasing the screen resolution does not cause the computer to rescale everything on screen to have greater detail at the same size (in inches, centimeters, whatever unit you like) and instead just makes everything smaller due to the pre-rasterized nature of everything displayed on screen.

    I know video games increase detail with increased resolution and not make everything smaller (well, Zoo Tycoon, Age of Empires, and Empire Earth don't but they are using prerasterized graphics which don't count), it would be nice if Windows and Windows programs did this as well. So my question is, when will increased screen resolutions increase detail and not make everything smaller?

  • User profile image
    eagle

    '98 Dell, must have been a 8mb GPU

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    eagle wrote:
    '98 Dell, must have been a 8mb GPU


    Intergraded infact. PII, 64MB of RAM, I upgraded it to 384MB and did a clean install of Windows 2000 Pro. I also changed the hard drive. By then I realized that it was just too old and saved money to buy the parts that compose the computer that I have today.

  • User profile image
    lostdude

    Hmmmmm.....

    Some monitor fun. Color comes from a pin point dot called a Phospher. (red, green, blue) A Triad is a group of 1 ea of the phosphers (a red, a green, a blue). A Pixel is a group of triads of a non-fixed size. Low resolution = larger pixels. High resolution = smaller pixels. Refresh rate will also have a lot of influence on filling the screen on a monitor. Thus the term "native resoultion". I believe it will take a new display technology to accomplish what you're after.

  • User profile image
    eto

    Shining Arcanine wrote:

    So my question is, when will increased screen resolutions increase detail and not make everything smaller?

    Can you say longhorn? Icons, etc, will be using scalable vector graphics, which means, you will get more detail as the resolution goes up, and you can keep things the same 'size' on the screen. Cheers, Curtis

  • User profile image
    JParrish

    Hmm.. so far doesnt look like anyone has said this.. anyway, what you mentioned about the settings of increased resolution causing the images to appear "smaller" not sharper is correct because the monitor has a fixed maximum resolution it is capable of displaying. I am guessing the reason you think some games have an increased resolution may have to do with the fact that some games will load multiple versions of the same texture at differing resolutions so that as the "camera" approaches the textured object it appears detailed.

    The fact that it seems detailed up close is just that the resolution of the texture closely matches that of your display (under ideal circumstances)

    As far as vector images are concerned, they will ensure that no matter how large you scale a graphic the system will rasterize it at the maximum resolution of your display. The important thing to know here is that the display is the bottleneck in the resolution of the images you see, no amount of graphic accelerators, or use of vector graphics will change that.

  • User profile image
    hurcane

    Shining Arcanine wrote:

    So my question is, when will increased screen resolutions increase detail and not make everything smaller?



    I want everything to be smaller. I run 1600 x 1200 on a 17" Dell CRT and I like it because I can effectively see 4 800x600 forms simultaneously. It's very nice to size the watch window, the code window, the locals window and my running form so they are all equally visible.

    Even today, you have some limited control over the sizes of your icons and fonts as the resolution increases. If you don't want the font to get smaller as the resolution increases, increase the font size.

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    lostdude wrote:
    I believe it will take a new display technology to accomplish what you're after.


    This actually just requires changes to the software as I know that higher resolutions = more pixels. Centimeters squared wise, the screen stays the same, I want to have the ability to maintain everything at the same size centimeter wise while gaining detail rather than space. I am sure it can be done and I think one day there will be configuration settings in Windows for this. I am also aware that programs would need to have interfaces that support this otherwise windows will have to either apply the old increase space of the screen tactic to it to make it fit or interpolate it. My question is when.

    eto wrote:
    Can you say longhorn? Icons, etc, will be using scalable vector graphics, which means, you will get more detail as the resolution goes up, and you can keep things the same 'size' on the screen. Cheers, Curtis


    I know about Longhorn's presentation technologies:

    http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_4051_03_presentation.asp

    From what I have read, they don't rescale everything like a fluid CSS layout with EM text and SVG images on a website would.

    hurcane wrote:
    I want everything to be smaller. I run 1600 x 1200 on a 17" Dell CRT and I like it because I can effectively see 4 800x600 forms simultaneously. It's very nice to size the watch window, the code window, the locals window and my running form so they are all equally visible.

    Even today, you have some limited control over the sizes of your icons and fonts as the resolution increases. If you don't want the font to get smaller as the resolution increases, increase the font size.


    And I want the ability to maintain the same centimeter squared space used on the screen.

  • User profile image
    Pseudo

    This is exactly what Avalon will do in Longhorn.  What you want is a higher dpi display.  Windows currently has some support for it, but many programs assume a fixed size dpi.  With avalon, running at a higher dpi should be transparent to the application, and therefore work much better.

    So to answer you question...probably 2006+ before it's really feasable. (At least with Windows)

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    Pseudo wrote:
    This is exactly what Avalon will do in Longhorn.  What you want is a higher dpi display.  Windows currently has some support for it, but many programs assume a fixed size dpi.  With avalon, running at a higher dpi should be transparent to the application, and therefore work much better.

    So to answer you question...probably 2006+ before it's really feasable. (At least with Windows)


    I've never played with dpi before. ^_^;; Thanks for telling me about it, I guess I'll wait for Longhorn.

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