Coffeehouse Thread

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  • User profile image
    Dan

    Dr Herbie said:
    spottedmah said:
    *snip*

    The 'C9 Revolution' was first talked about almost exactly a year ago (early June 2009).  No dates have ever been set -- I think this is a 'backburner' project that keeps getting sidelined when other projects crop up.

     

    Herbie

     

    We need to do a better job of communicating where we are with this project and as luck would have it, I've now inherited communicating this out to internal/external folks.

     

    Here's what I'd assume you want to know

    • When is it going to ship?
    • Why is it taking so long?
    • What's included in Rev 9?
    • Is there anything that isn't included?
    • How will this make the site more stable and performant?
    • What are the next things you'll be adding after Rev9 ships?

    Is there anything I'm missing?

     

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    Dan said:
    Dr Herbie said:
    *snip*

    We need to do a better job of communicating where we are with this project and as luck would have it, I've now inherited communicating this out to internal/external folks.

     

    Here's what I'd assume you want to know

    • When is it going to ship?
    • Why is it taking so long?
    • What's included in Rev 9?
    • Is there anything that isn't included?
    • How will this make the site more stable and performant?
    • What are the next things you'll be adding after Rev9 ships?

    Is there anything I'm missing?

     

    The site's running normally again now. The past 3 days it's been slow as molasses, if the pages load at all.

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    Dan said:
    Dr Herbie said:
    *snip*

    We need to do a better job of communicating where we are with this project and as luck would have it, I've now inherited communicating this out to internal/external folks.

     

    Here's what I'd assume you want to know

    • When is it going to ship?
    • Why is it taking so long?
    • What's included in Rev 9?
    • Is there anything that isn't included?
    • How will this make the site more stable and performant?
    • What are the next things you'll be adding after Rev9 ships?

    Is there anything I'm missing?

     

    We also want, if possible, access to the code Tongue Out

     

    Or at least some screencasts covering any interesting bits.

     

    Herbie

     

  • User profile image
    allenf

    Dan said:
    Dr Herbie said:
    *snip*

    We need to do a better job of communicating where we are with this project and as luck would have it, I've now inherited communicating this out to internal/external folks.

     

    Here's what I'd assume you want to know

    • When is it going to ship?
    • Why is it taking so long?
    • What's included in Rev 9?
    • Is there anything that isn't included?
    • How will this make the site more stable and performant?
    • What are the next things you'll be adding after Rev9 ships?

    Is there anything I'm missing?

     

    Dan,

    You've forgotten the following. And yes I know that Channel9 is being developed by 2(maybe 3 college intern devs).

    1. Hard Dates of when features/functionality will be delivered on the on the site. Miss a date and you're gone.
    2. Jeff Sandquist committing to the site again publically. Jeff either invest in Channel9 or shut it down.
    3. Feature/Improvement/Fix lists (Be transparent about what you're working on, on the site)
    4. Feature Voting (We're your stakeholders...surely your practicing scrum. So why not let us help you prioritize the bug fixes? I'd love to give input on feature priorities but me thinks you'll never be that transparent)

    Btw, is Duncan still around?

     

    Adam Kinney used to be the primary dev...but I've lost track of who actually are the developers on channel9.

     

    Maybe having weekly videos with the dev team would help.

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    Dan said:
    Dr Herbie said:
    *snip*

    We need to do a better job of communicating where we are with this project and as luck would have it, I've now inherited communicating this out to internal/external folks.

     

    Here's what I'd assume you want to know

    • When is it going to ship?
    • Why is it taking so long?
    • What's included in Rev 9?
    • Is there anything that isn't included?
    • How will this make the site more stable and performant?
    • What are the next things you'll be adding after Rev9 ships?

    Is there anything I'm missing?

     

    Yes please. And -

     

    Is Azure part of the recipe?

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    Dr Herbie said:
    Dan said:
    *snip*

    We also want, if possible, access to the code Tongue Out

     

    Or at least some screencasts covering any interesting bits.

     

    Herbie

     

    We also want ongoing web cam footage of the devs coding away. Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    Duncanma

    MasterPie said:
    Dr Herbie said:
    *snip*

    We also want ongoing web cam footage of the devs coding away. Tongue Out

    That would be awesome in some ways, scary in others...

     

  • User profile image
    Duncanma

    allenf said:
    Dan said:
    *snip*

    Dan,

    You've forgotten the following. And yes I know that Channel9 is being developed by 2(maybe 3 college intern devs).

    1. Hard Dates of when features/functionality will be delivered on the on the site. Miss a date and you're gone.
    2. Jeff Sandquist committing to the site again publically. Jeff either invest in Channel9 or shut it down.
    3. Feature/Improvement/Fix lists (Be transparent about what you're working on, on the site)
    4. Feature Voting (We're your stakeholders...surely your practicing scrum. So why not let us help you prioritize the bug fixes? I'd love to give input on feature priorities but me thinks you'll never be that transparent)

    Btw, is Duncan still around?

     

    Adam Kinney used to be the primary dev...but I've lost track of who actually are the developers on channel9.

     

    Maybe having weekly videos with the dev team would help.

    I'll let Dan drive some of the responses here, but yes I'm still around... as is Sampy.. and our team has two new devs that have only been working on Rev9; Geoff and Cara

  • User profile image
    davewill

    Dan said:
    Dr Herbie said:
    *snip*

    We need to do a better job of communicating where we are with this project and as luck would have it, I've now inherited communicating this out to internal/external folks.

     

    Here's what I'd assume you want to know

    • When is it going to ship?
    • Why is it taking so long?
    • What's included in Rev 9?
    • Is there anything that isn't included?
    • How will this make the site more stable and performant?
    • What are the next things you'll be adding after Rev9 ships?

    Is there anything I'm missing?

     

    That is more than a good start ... well except for ... a fresh new 9guy for everyone.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    Duncanma said:
    allenf said:
    *snip*

    I'll let Dan drive some of the responses here, but yes I'm still around... as is Sampy.. and our team has two new devs that have only been working on Rev9; Geoff and Cara

    Why are they never on this forum?

  • User profile image
    Duncanma

    ZippyV said:
    Duncanma said:
    *snip*

    Why are they never on this forum?

    That's a good question. I know they are lurking, because they bring up threads like this with me, but I expect they don't chime in on many things related to the current site because they have very little knowledge of how it works or how it is managed. Definitely expect to hear more from them as we move forward into the beta and production releases.

  • User profile image
    Dan

    allenf said:
    Dan said:
    *snip*

    Dan,

    You've forgotten the following. And yes I know that Channel9 is being developed by 2(maybe 3 college intern devs).

    1. Hard Dates of when features/functionality will be delivered on the on the site. Miss a date and you're gone.
    2. Jeff Sandquist committing to the site again publically. Jeff either invest in Channel9 or shut it down.
    3. Feature/Improvement/Fix lists (Be transparent about what you're working on, on the site)
    4. Feature Voting (We're your stakeholders...surely your practicing scrum. So why not let us help you prioritize the bug fixes? I'd love to give input on feature priorities but me thinks you'll never be that transparent)

    Btw, is Duncan still around?

     

    Adam Kinney used to be the primary dev...but I've lost track of who actually are the developers on channel9.

     

    Maybe having weekly videos with the dev team would help.

    Thanks, I'm hoping we can keep this conversational and not attacking/snarky (ex: calling the dev team interns can be considered insulting, but I'm assuming you meant that they are brilliant, good-looking people and not horribly jaded like me Smiley )

     

    1. My concern with dates is that the #1 thing we've heard is that quality is more important over dates. Meaning that given the option of doing something right that will increase the long term quality of the site and having that push out dates is a good thing. Another way to say this in the classic project triangle is that we're optimizing for Good, not Fast.  

    2. Jeff's committed, that's for sure, I'll have him chime in on this thread

    3. Agree here, the problem is that communication gets de-prioritized over other work (like covering an event, a product launch, writing code, Channel 9 Live, etc).

    4.  Perhaps, I do know Jamie and some other niners had the usertaskforce going for a while

     

     

    This is probably a good time to talk about how we take feedback. We have a couple of sources for where we take feedback and how we set our priorities. In terms of how we take feedback:

    • There's immediate feedback mechanisms like the Contact Us link below for when there is a spammer, bad behavior, or site issues.
    • Then there are the forums like the Feedback and coffeehouse which certainly get suggestions, questions and ideas for improvements (like this thread).
    • Finally, there's our user survey, where we ask customers to tell us what they want (content & features) and to rank the importance of site features.
    • Further, there was a community effort started to use Long's user task force to submit requests (http://channel9.usertaskforce.com), but this hasn't had additional submissions in the last year and appears to have fizzled out.

     

    When taking feedback, one thing I've learned is to ensure the feedback you get is a representative sample. For example, if the highest requrest feature had 10 votes, it may appear that we should obviously do this. The problem of course is the small number of votes could mean that this feedback isn't really representative as 10 votes is 1/10th of 1% of the total views that just one of the videos on the home page video will get in a week (assuming 10K views).

     

    In terms of transparency, one issue that occurs when our team is working on features we can't disclose yet. For example, when we started doing Channel 9 Live, a good amount of work went into figuring out how smooth streaming works/scales, redundancy, and more. I'm sure there will be more examples of this that cause us to not be transparent about what the dev team is working on (ex: Silverlight 7, IE 15, Windows 9).

     

    Hope this helps,

    -Dan

  • User profile image
    Geoffreyk

    ZippyV said:
    Duncanma said:
    *snip*

    Why are they never on this forum?

    ---Cough---

     

     

     

    Oops, you weren't supposed to hear me when I am lurking

  • User profile image
    davewill

    Dan said:
    allenf said:
    *snip*

    Thanks, I'm hoping we can keep this conversational and not attacking/snarky (ex: calling the dev team interns can be considered insulting, but I'm assuming you meant that they are brilliant, good-looking people and not horribly jaded like me Smiley )

     

    1. My concern with dates is that the #1 thing we've heard is that quality is more important over dates. Meaning that given the option of doing something right that will increase the long term quality of the site and having that push out dates is a good thing. Another way to say this in the classic project triangle is that we're optimizing for Good, not Fast.  

    2. Jeff's committed, that's for sure, I'll have him chime in on this thread

    3. Agree here, the problem is that communication gets de-prioritized over other work (like covering an event, a product launch, writing code, Channel 9 Live, etc).

    4.  Perhaps, I do know Jamie and some other niners had the usertaskforce going for a while

     

     

    This is probably a good time to talk about how we take feedback. We have a couple of sources for where we take feedback and how we set our priorities. In terms of how we take feedback:

    • There's immediate feedback mechanisms like the Contact Us link below for when there is a spammer, bad behavior, or site issues.
    • Then there are the forums like the Feedback and coffeehouse which certainly get suggestions, questions and ideas for improvements (like this thread).
    • Finally, there's our user survey, where we ask customers to tell us what they want (content & features) and to rank the importance of site features.
    • Further, there was a community effort started to use Long's user task force to submit requests (http://channel9.usertaskforce.com), but this hasn't had additional submissions in the last year and appears to have fizzled out.

     

    When taking feedback, one thing I've learned is to ensure the feedback you get is a representative sample. For example, if the highest requrest feature had 10 votes, it may appear that we should obviously do this. The problem of course is the small number of votes could mean that this feedback isn't really representative as 10 votes is 1/10th of 1% of the total views that just one of the videos on the home page video will get in a week (assuming 10K views).

     

    In terms of transparency, one issue that occurs when our team is working on features we can't disclose yet. For example, when we started doing Channel 9 Live, a good amount of work went into figuring out how smooth streaming works/scales, redundancy, and more. I'm sure there will be more examples of this that cause us to not be transparent about what the dev team is working on (ex: Silverlight 7, IE 15, Windows 9).

     

    Hope this helps,

    -Dan

  • There's immediate feedback mechanisms like the Contact Us link below for when there is a spammer, bad behavior, or site issues.

    For reporting the site issues lately, "Contact Us" isn't going to work when the site is so slow or isn't returning at all.

  • Finally, there's our user survey, where we ask customers to tell us what they want (content & features) and to rank the importance of site features.

    Hmmm ... never heard of it.  Could be useful though I think most folks need to quickly post an idea at the time it occurs given the amount of task switching that we do these days.  The Feedback forum is perfect for that when it is responsive.
  • Further, there was a community effort started to use Long's user task force to submit requests (http://channel9.usertaskforce.com), but this hasn't had additional submissions in the last year and appears to have fizzled out.

    If this isn't linked on c9 like the Feedback forum, it isn't going to last very long.

  • User profile image
    allenf

    davewill said:
    Dan said:
    *snip*
  • There's immediate feedback mechanisms like the Contact Us link below for when there is a spammer, bad behavior, or site issues.

    For reporting the site issues lately, "Contact Us" isn't going to work when the site is so slow or isn't returning at all.

  • Finally, there's our user survey, where we ask customers to tell us what they want (content & features) and to rank the importance of site features.

    Hmmm ... never heard of it.  Could be useful though I think most folks need to quickly post an idea at the time it occurs given the amount of task switching that we do these days.  The Feedback forum is perfect for that when it is responsive.
  • Further, there was a community effort started to use Long's user task force to submit requests (http://channel9.usertaskforce.com/">http://channel9.usertaskforce.com), but this hasn't had additional submissions in the last year and appears to have fizzled out.

    If this isn't linked on c9 like the Feedback forum, it isn't going to last very long.

  • So about that interview with Jeff on camera committing to channel9.....guess it's not happening.

     

    Sure seems like a ghost town here. It's like you guys are going through the motions without any of that Microsoft "passion".

     

    Is channel9 on life support and no one told us?

  • User profile image
    Charles

    allenf said:
    davewill said:
    *snip*

    So about that interview with Jeff on camera committing to channel9.....guess it's not happening.

     

    Sure seems like a ghost town here. It's like you guys are going through the motions without any of that Microsoft "passion".

     

    Is channel9 on life support and no one told us?

    What do you mean? Ghost town?

    C

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    Charles said:
    allenf said:
    *snip*

    What do you mean? Ghost town?

    C

    Apologies ifthis has already been discussed but out of interest what is the target client tech for the next version of C9?

     

    ie

    • Current Standards
    • HTML5
    • Silverlight
    • A Mixture

    It would be cool to know about plans for the back end as well.

     

    And I guess whlie we are at it, the target hardware platforms (ie WM7/iPhone/tablets etc) - will be any platform specific code in order to get an enriched experience on that platform (touch, beyond the basics, for instance)

     

    Might make an interesting Channel 9 Interview?

  • User profile image
    Charles

    Ian2 said:
    Charles said:
    *snip*

    Apologies ifthis has already been discussed but out of interest what is the target client tech for the next version of C9?

     

    ie

    • Current Standards
    • HTML5
    • Silverlight
    • A Mixture

    It would be cool to know about plans for the back end as well.

     

    And I guess whlie we are at it, the target hardware platforms (ie WM7/iPhone/tablets etc) - will be any platform specific code in order to get an enriched experience on that platform (touch, beyond the basics, for instance)

     

    Might make an interesting Channel 9 Interview?

    We'll certainly be interviewing the dev team on what they've built.

    C

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