Coffeehouse Thread

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I'm going back to VS2008

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  • User profile image
    Ion Todirel

    W3bbo said:
    Clint said:
    *snip*

    I take back what I said about VS2010 showing .NET4.0-specific entries in a 2.0 project, I was just looking at the intellisense list and noticed some things I never noticed before (namely Array.LongLength).

     

    I've no issues with VS2010 performance in general, but it's just the "little things" in the UI lag that get to me, such as when you open the menus for the first time in a session, subsequent openings are as fast as I'd expect them, but there's still a noticable delay for the first time.

     

    But yeah, so far the main pain is the lack of actual line indenting. I'll gladly pay someone £50 to write an extension that fixes this.

    I cannot see the indenting issue you mention. Are you sure you don't have None under Tools - Options - Text Editor - C# - Tabs - Indenting?

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Ion Todirel said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    I cannot see the indenting issue you mention. Are you sure you don't have None under Tools - Options - Text Editor - C# - Tabs - Indenting?

    See this screenshot:

     

    Generic Forum Image

     

    As you can see, lines that don't contain anything don't have any tabs characters in them. VS2003, 5, and 8 all indented new lines as you pressed the Return key, VS2010 doesn't: it only indents the line once you type something on that line. If you press Return again you get \r\n\r\n rather than \r\n\t\t\t\r\n.

     

    When typing code this isn't a huge problem for me because the caret is magically in the right place 90% of the time, but when I move the caret around with my arrow keys it often ends up in Column 1 when it should be in Column 3 (see screenshot, line 98) where it would be if empty lines were indented.

     

     

  • User profile image
    elmer

    W3bbo said:
    Ion Todirel said:
    *snip*

    See this screenshot:

     

    Generic Forum Image

     

    As you can see, lines that don't contain anything don't have any tabs characters in them. VS2003, 5, and 8 all indented new lines as you pressed the Return key, VS2010 doesn't: it only indents the line once you type something on that line. If you press Return again you get \r\n\r\n rather than \r\n\t\t\t\r\n.

     

    When typing code this isn't a huge problem for me because the caret is magically in the right place 90% of the time, but when I move the caret around with my arrow keys it often ends up in Column 1 when it should be in Column 3 (see screenshot, line 98) where it would be if empty lines were indented.

     

     

    Apparently:  By Design, Won't Fix.

     

    https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/559293/block-tab-indents-broken

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    elmer said:

    "Wont Fix" issues are the most annoying and frustrating to me: people have genuine issues with the software and dutifully report them, only to be told, with a smile, "No"; it reminds me too much of those unhelpful receptionists who decline any request without giving further information.

     

    I'd certainly be a lot happier with the situation if they explained why they made that design choice; I certainly can't see any possible benefit, and if they're going to change something like this why not make it an option?

     

    I don't know the VS extension API well enough, but might it be possible to write an extension to fix this?

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    W3bbo said:
    elmer said:
    *snip*

    "Wont Fix" issues are the most annoying and frustrating to me: people have genuine issues with the software and dutifully report them, only to be told, with a smile, "No"; it reminds me too much of those unhelpful receptionists who decline any request without giving further information.

     

    I'd certainly be a lot happier with the situation if they explained why they made that design choice; I certainly can't see any possible benefit, and if they're going to change something like this why not make it an option?

     

    I don't know the VS extension API well enough, but might it be possible to write an extension to fix this?

    I agree about won't fix being irritating, but it is a numbers game at the end of the day.

     

    Microsoft themselves use the C++ editor to build visual studio and thousands of their own developers are not complaining. When you have worked on a large software application supporting many thousands of users, you learn to prioritise bug fixes and issues.

     

    I bet you on connect there are loads more issues with loads more people complaining about, so rather than please 1 or 2 people,  and annoy hundreds or thousands, a decision is taken against you, as in this case.

     

    I have not used C++ for 5 years or so, but something tells me there is a fix available for this issue, either a setting or a registry hack.

     

    Mind you, I installed Windows 7 and just used it, just like I installed Visual studio 2010 and just used it. People that stayed on XP and missed Vista have a lot more to learn abaout win 7, but to me Vista and windows 7 are very similar.

     

    I think (I mean this in the nicest way) that you should "deal with it" as Dr Herbie would say.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    vesuvius said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    I agree about won't fix being irritating, but it is a numbers game at the end of the day.

     

    Microsoft themselves use the C++ editor to build visual studio and thousands of their own developers are not complaining. When you have worked on a large software application supporting many thousands of users, you learn to prioritise bug fixes and issues.

     

    I bet you on connect there are loads more issues with loads more people complaining about, so rather than please 1 or 2 people,  and annoy hundreds or thousands, a decision is taken against you, as in this case.

     

    I have not used C++ for 5 years or so, but something tells me there is a fix available for this issue, either a setting or a registry hack.

     

    Mind you, I installed Windows 7 and just used it, just like I installed Visual studio 2010 and just used it. People that stayed on XP and missed Vista have a lot more to learn abaout win 7, but to me Vista and windows 7 are very similar.

     

    I think (I mean this in the nicest way) that you should "deal with it" as Dr Herbie would say.

    While I personally don't have an issue with the way VS2010 indents, I think it's unacceptable to change such a widely used tool as the VS editor, without providing an option to enable to a legacy behaviour.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    elmer said:
    vesuvius said:
    *snip*

    While I personally don't have an issue with the way VS2010 indents, I think it's unacceptable to change such a widely used tool as the VS editor, without providing an option to enable to a legacy behaviour.

    I've just tried to update my Visual Studio installation to include C++ but have encountered this bug. I cannot test this myself I'm afraid, and don't have the time to look into correcting the bug to allow me to install C++.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    vesuvius said:
    elmer said:
    *snip*

    I've just tried to update my Visual Studio installation to include C++ but have encountered this bug. I cannot test this myself I'm afraid, and don't have the time to look into correcting the bug to allow me to install C++.

    W3bbo is actually talking about the C# editor, which shows the same behaviour.

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    Dr Herbie said:
    raptor3676 said:
    *snip*

    Everyone should go and test here before they complain about software changes Tongue Out

     

    (I got a score of 20, slap bang between average scientist and average computer scientist -- which is about right given that I trained in biology and then went into computers!).

     

    Herbie

     

    Odd. I studied biology and computers at the same time and scored a 43. Is that bad?

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    vesuvius said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    I agree about won't fix being irritating, but it is a numbers game at the end of the day.

     

    Microsoft themselves use the C++ editor to build visual studio and thousands of their own developers are not complaining. When you have worked on a large software application supporting many thousands of users, you learn to prioritise bug fixes and issues.

     

    I bet you on connect there are loads more issues with loads more people complaining about, so rather than please 1 or 2 people,  and annoy hundreds or thousands, a decision is taken against you, as in this case.

     

    I have not used C++ for 5 years or so, but something tells me there is a fix available for this issue, either a setting or a registry hack.

     

    Mind you, I installed Windows 7 and just used it, just like I installed Visual studio 2010 and just used it. People that stayed on XP and missed Vista have a lot more to learn abaout win 7, but to me Vista and windows 7 are very similar.

     

    I think (I mean this in the nicest way) that you should "deal with it" as Dr Herbie would say.

    "I think (I mean this in the nicest way) that you should "deal with it" as Dr Herbie would say."

     

    Actually I would scream "ADAPT OR DIE!", but that's my academic history coming back to haunt me Tongue Out

     

    Flexibility is important, especially if you ever end up as an on-site contractor; you have to be able to instantly adopt the local practices.

    If Asperger's people can learn to be sociable, can they also learn to be adaptable?

     

    Herbie

     

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    Shining Arcanine said:
    Dr Herbie said:
    *snip*

    Odd. I studied biology and computers at the same time and scored a 43. Is that bad?

    Depends what sort of biology.

     

    I clearly recall the division within the 'Biodoversity' building Southampton University, most obvious in the cafeteria : all the geneticists and biochemists seeming very uptight sitting is closed groups at their tables, while all the ecologists, entomologists and other 'whole animal' biologists were lounging around on the terrace, smoking, drinking and being sociable. Smiley

     

    Herbie

     

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    W3bbo said:
    Ion Todirel said:
    *snip*

    See this screenshot:

     

    Generic Forum Image

     

    As you can see, lines that don't contain anything don't have any tabs characters in them. VS2003, 5, and 8 all indented new lines as you pressed the Return key, VS2010 doesn't: it only indents the line once you type something on that line. If you press Return again you get \r\n\r\n rather than \r\n\t\t\t\r\n.

     

    When typing code this isn't a huge problem for me because the caret is magically in the right place 90% of the time, but when I move the caret around with my arrow keys it often ends up in Column 1 when it should be in Column 3 (see screenshot, line 98) where it would be if empty lines were indented.

     

     

    One question. Does the condition in the ternary operator on line 75 ever evaluate to true?

     

    By the way, those dots in place of spaces are extremely annoying. They make me feel like I am reading space-less strings instead of what I assume is C# code.

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    Dr Herbie said:
    Shining Arcanine said:
    *snip*

    Depends what sort of biology.

     

    I clearly recall the division within the 'Biodoversity' building Southampton University, most obvious in the cafeteria : all the geneticists and biochemists seeming very uptight sitting is closed groups at their tables, while all the ecologists, entomologists and other 'whole animal' biologists were lounging around on the terrace, smoking, drinking and being sociable. Smiley

     

    Herbie

     

    Genetics and Molecular Biology.

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    Shining Arcanine said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    One question. Does the condition in the ternary operator on line 75 ever evaluate to true?

     

    By the way, those dots in place of spaces are extremely annoying. They make me feel like I am reading space-less strings instead of what I assume is C# code.

    Line 75 has will pick up the result of the (even = !even) assignment as the condition for the ternary operator, so it will flip-flop every iteration. Nicely succinct.

     

    Herbie

     

     

  • User profile image
    Bas

    18.. I continue my streak as a completely average male in every possible aspect.

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    Dr Herbie said:
    Shining Arcanine said:
    *snip*

    Line 75 has will pick up the result of the (even = !even) assignment as the condition for the ternary operator, so it will flip-flop every iteration. Nicely succinct.

     

    Herbie

     

     

    Ah, okay. I misread it as being (even == !even). I need to start writing some C code. I have not had a reason to write it in a while. :/

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    Shining Arcanine said:
    Dr Herbie said:
    *snip*

    Ah, okay. I misread it as being (even == !even). I need to start writing some C code. I have not had a reason to write it in a while. :/

    It's probably not particularly good practice though. A side-effecting expression as a test for the ternary operator. On the other hand, in this case, it's sufficiently clear what's going on. I like it for its succintness and apparent elegance and dislike it for its impurity; ambivalence, here I come.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Dr Herbie said:
    Shining Arcanine said:
    *snip*

    Line 75 has will pick up the result of the (even = !even) assignment as the condition for the ternary operator, so it will flip-flop every iteration. Nicely succinct.

     

    Herbie

     

     

    That's okay, I'll rewrite it First Year Undergraduate syntax:

     

    Brush b;

    if( even == true ) { even = false; }

    else { even = true; }

     

    if( even == true ) b = Brushes.Black;

    else b = Brushes.White;

     

    there Tongue Out

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