Coffeehouse Thread

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Nice! Courier by Toshiba :D LIbretto W100

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  • User profile image
    Dovella

     

     

    Libretto W100 is rock Smiley

  • User profile image
    rhm

    It just shows how lumpy and impractical the Courier would have been if they'd made it.

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    If only they'd made it big enough for a full-size keyboard. Right now it looks like a slightly bigger Nintendo DS. Still, pretty neat stuff. If they can release it for under $500 I think it would be very popular.

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    The Courier for microsoft was mainly about the software, that was what made the concept shine. Microsoft said they have learned a lot out of the concept and we will see it in other products.

     

    I'm guessing a Tablet 'dual screen' mode in the next version of OneNote... Then this would have indeed been a courier.

  • User profile image
    Blue Ink

    CKurt said:

    The Courier for microsoft was mainly about the software, that was what made the concept shine. Microsoft said they have learned a lot out of the concept and we will see it in other products.

     

    I'm guessing a Tablet 'dual screen' mode in the next version of OneNote... Then this would have indeed been a courier.

    I couldn't find a reference to a hi-res stylus either... the ability to sketch and jot down notes was what made the Courier interesting for me. This looks more like a foldable iPad with Windows 7 on it.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    CKurt said:

    The Courier for microsoft was mainly about the software, that was what made the concept shine. Microsoft said they have learned a lot out of the concept and we will see it in other products.

     

    I'm guessing a Tablet 'dual screen' mode in the next version of OneNote... Then this would have indeed been a courier.

    Yup, it was the software; that's what's missing here.  I don't think Windows is a good fit for a device like this.

     

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    Ray7 said:
    CKurt said:
    *snip*

    Yup, it was the software; that's what's missing here.  I don't think Windows is a good fit for a device like this.

     

    Windows might be good for a bases so you could still do everything on it. But it does need to run a 'Tablet UI' on top of it by default. Something like 'HP TouchSmart' software, but then decent productive software with good handwriting detection.

     

    Windows is not unuable on a tablet, it is just nog the most productive way of doing things. But choosing between doing sruff unproductivly or not doing them at all, I still choose doing them. But for main stuff we need dedicated tablet software.

  • User profile image
    Dovella
  • User profile image
    Ray7

    CKurt said:
    Ray7 said:
    *snip*

    Windows might be good for a bases so you could still do everything on it. But it does need to run a 'Tablet UI' on top of it by default. Something like 'HP TouchSmart' software, but then decent productive software with good handwriting detection.

     

    Windows is not unuable on a tablet, it is just nog the most productive way of doing things. But choosing between doing sruff unproductivly or not doing them at all, I still choose doing them. But for main stuff we need dedicated tablet software.

    The problem is that folk use Windows as the base. And because Windows was never designed for touch interfaces, the ugly non-touchy bits keep poking through.

     

    These things need to be built from the ground up – ask Apple.

     

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    Ray7 said:
    CKurt said:
    *snip*

    The problem is that folk use Windows as the base. And because Windows was never designed for touch interfaces, the ugly non-touchy bits keep poking through.

     

    These things need to be built from the ground up – ask Apple.

     

    The app running full screen on top of Windows needs t build from the ground up indeed. And that app should have more and more core functionality.

     

    There is no reason to remake every single Windows API or way it handles networking. All business code in 3tier applications should be able to be reused. It's only the UI component that needs to be completly retought in function of touch. (as taking notes on courier tablet). The UI is based on different/new events then traditional pc's.

     

    The Courier Concept could be a silverlight app running full screen. Maybe even 2 apps (one for each screen) and allowing drag and drop between them... This App SHOULD start by default on windows startup. So the underlaying windows is hidden by default from the user, but accessible if the users want to do something that is possible in windows but not yet in the app. And release by release more and more functionality should drippel over from Windows in the the UI of these touched based apps...

     

    (just my view on things)

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    CKurt said:
    Ray7 said:
    *snip*

    The app running full screen on top of Windows needs t build from the ground up indeed. And that app should have more and more core functionality.

     

    There is no reason to remake every single Windows API or way it handles networking. All business code in 3tier applications should be able to be reused. It's only the UI component that needs to be completly retought in function of touch. (as taking notes on courier tablet). The UI is based on different/new events then traditional pc's.

     

    The Courier Concept could be a silverlight app running full screen. Maybe even 2 apps (one for each screen) and allowing drag and drop between them... This App SHOULD start by default on windows startup. So the underlaying windows is hidden by default from the user, but accessible if the users want to do something that is possible in windows but not yet in the app. And release by release more and more functionality should drippel over from Windows in the the UI of these touched based apps...

     

    (just my view on things)

    Oh, I agree with that, but that's not what we're seeing here, and that's why it'll probably fail. The whole operating system UI would need rebuilding from the ground up. MS has tried to 'skin' it and it was a dismal failure. And I would even go further to suggest that it might not be as easy to just drop a new UI on top of it, as the developers would simply poke through into ugly bits underneath.

     

    But a completely new UI layer would work, yes.

     

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    Ray7 said:
    CKurt said:
    *snip*

    Oh, I agree with that, but that's not what we're seeing here, and that's why it'll probably fail. The whole operating system UI would need rebuilding from the ground up. MS has tried to 'skin' it and it was a dismal failure. And I would even go further to suggest that it might not be as easy to just drop a new UI on top of it, as the developers would simply poke through into ugly bits underneath.

     

    But a completely new UI layer would work, yes.

     

    I agree with Ray7. The problem of what MS failed on tablet and mobile devices are because they are not geared for touch from ground up. And because of the ability to run windows software, it will also make the 3rd party not focusing on touch. Or to be precise, even if the apps are touch designed, a lot of people are going to install their non-touch applications, which will destroy the whole ecosystem again. And the default GUI is not geared with touch in mind will also make it less ideal experience.

     

    So, in the end, there are the big mess

    1) OS not touch all the way.

    2) 3rd party doesn't use touch all the way.

    3) User install 3 years old touchless software.

    4) People again treat it as PC, use it as PC, and in the end, they get a laptop.

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    CKurt

    magicalclick said:
    Ray7 said:
    *snip*

    I agree with Ray7. The problem of what MS failed on tablet and mobile devices are because they are not geared for touch from ground up. And because of the ability to run windows software, it will also make the 3rd party not focusing on touch. Or to be precise, even if the apps are touch designed, a lot of people are going to install their non-touch applications, which will destroy the whole ecosystem again. And the default GUI is not geared with touch in mind will also make it less ideal experience.

     

    So, in the end, there are the big mess

    1) OS not touch all the way.

    2) 3rd party doesn't use touch all the way.

    3) User install 3 years old touchless software.

    4) People again treat it as PC, use it as PC, and in the end, they get a laptop.

     

    I kind of agree. But to get a 'less ideal experience' is still better then not getting the expericience at all. If microsoft would build a complety new UI layer for Windows it will be missing so so so so much in the first couple of releases (eg: iPad features)

     

    They can however, build an application running on top of the original windows 7 that is completly optimised for touch. Doing some key scenario's very well. (taking notes, emailing , browsing , browsing pictures,...).

     

    But lets say I eventualy want to browse a website that I need to conect to trough tunneling, i could leave the 'ideal' setup for a few moments, set op a tunnel with normal windows program and then return to the tablet experience and browse that website fine.
    An other example of this would be Windows Media Center. It's a 10 foot UI running on top of windows 7, people leave that UI to sometimes... I'm thinking about a touch UI running on top of windows 7.

    If I can not leave the ideal experience I woudl feel like I have bought a 'cat in a bag' restricting my movements.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    CKurt said:
    magicalclick said:
    *snip*

    I kind of agree. But to get a 'less ideal experience' is still better then not getting the expericience at all. If microsoft would build a complety new UI layer for Windows it will be missing so so so so much in the first couple of releases (eg: iPad features)

     

    They can however, build an application running on top of the original windows 7 that is completly optimised for touch. Doing some key scenario's very well. (taking notes, emailing , browsing , browsing pictures,...).

     

    But lets say I eventualy want to browse a website that I need to conect to trough tunneling, i could leave the 'ideal' setup for a few moments, set op a tunnel with normal windows program and then return to the tablet experience and browse that website fine.
    An other example of this would be Windows Media Center. It's a 10 foot UI running on top of windows 7, people leave that UI to sometimes... I'm thinking about a touch UI running on top of windows 7.

    If I can not leave the ideal experience I woudl feel like I have bought a 'cat in a bag' restricting my movements.

    You're thinking like a geek, not a consumer.  I suspect that the iPad will be a huge hit despite its limitations because of the great UI experience Apple offers in their place.

     

    CKurt said:
    But lets say I eventualy want to browse a website that I need to conect to trough tunneling

     

    Yes, precisely. The number of consumers who need to do that is painfully small. We've seen the 'less ideal experience' from Microsoft time and time again, and it has always ended in failure.

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    Ray7 said:
    CKurt said:
    *snip*

     

    Yes, precisely. The number of consumers who need to do that is painfully small. We've seen the 'less ideal experience' from Microsoft time and time again, and it has always ended in failure.

    I think the iPad will be successful because of the marketing and the fact that it looks appealing, but a lot of people who buy them will grow bored of them quickly and look to other things (which leaves a big gaping hole for Microsoft to fill). Functionally I just don't see it as a great device.

  • User profile image
    Cream​Filling512

    brian.shapiro said:
    Ray7 said:
    *snip*

    I think the iPad will be successful because of the marketing and the fact that it looks appealing, but a lot of people who buy them will grow bored of them quickly and look to other things (which leaves a big gaping hole for Microsoft to fill). Functionally I just don't see it as a great device.

    iPad is proof you can make people buy anything if you sell it the right way.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    brian.shapiro said:
    Ray7 said:
    *snip*

    I think the iPad will be successful because of the marketing and the fact that it looks appealing, but a lot of people who buy them will grow bored of them quickly and look to other things (which leaves a big gaping hole for Microsoft to fill). Functionally I just don't see it as a great device.

    That's true, but it seems to be the perfect device for the people it's aimed at.

     

    I don't think it's a coincidence that all the folk trying to return them are techies. It was not designed for techies. Jobs doesn't even like techies.

     

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    Ray7 said:
    brian.shapiro said:
    *snip*

    That's true, but it seems to be the perfect device for the people it's aimed at.

     

    I don't think it's a coincidence that all the folk trying to return them are techies. It was not designed for techies. Jobs doesn't even like techies.

     

    Well, the problem is that its not good at almost all of the tasks its marketed for:

     

    * Watching videos : If you're on the go, you have to hold the screen at a distance directly in front of you with both hands, or have it on your lap, where it can slip. That's awkward, and tiring, if you're watching a movie. And if you're home, why watch the movie on your iPad instead of on a TV?

     

    * Reading books: If you're on the go, reading in sunlight will be a big problem. You have to always use it indoors.

     

    * Playing games: For the same reason that its awkward playing videos, it will be awkward playing games.. the iPod, PSP, and Nintendo DS are better form factors.

     

    * Using iWork: Just get a netbook. You need a stylus to be productive with a touch capable device.

     

    What is it good for?

     

    Reading blogs.

     

    That's it.

     

    So maybe non-techies will buy it, but after how long will they start to gather dust?

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