Coffeehouse Thread

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  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    Bas said:
    blowdart said:
    *snip*

    I'd love to see Minh interview the C9 dev team.

    Ooh! Seconded!  Go on, get Minh in for a day!

     

    Herbie

     

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Dr Herbie said:
    Bas said:
    *snip*

    Ooh! Seconded!  Go on, get Minh in for a day!

     

    Herbie

     

    Haha oh yea, that would be stunning Smiley or Minh interview any team where he has strong opinions!

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    Bas said:
    blowdart said:
    *snip*

    I'd love to see Minh interview the C9 dev team.

    +1 Minh is my hero

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    blowdart said:
    Dr Herbie said:
    *snip*

    Haha oh yea, that would be stunning Smiley or Minh interview any team where he has strong opinions!

    I'd like to see the team interview Minh afterwards too!  Devil

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    exoteric said:
    blowdart said:
    *snip*

    I'd like to see the team interview Minh afterwards too!  Devil

    By interview you mean plummel with large sticks right? No? Just me?

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    blowdart said:
    exoteric said:
    *snip*

    By interview you mean plummel with large sticks right? No? Just me?

    By any means necessary - be it whiteboarding, blackboarding or other, legal kinds of boarding Wink

  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    Charles said:
    PaoloM said:
    *snip*

    Not a bad idea! Maybe you guys should do a Channel 9 piece on Channel 9. Keep it OldSchool -> walk around the offices of the team, meet the people behind the 9 ball...

    C

    We would have to do what Mary Jo Foley's does. Sneeking around, talking folks up, funny business.  I'm in!

     

    -Josh

  • User profile image
    Charles

    JoshRoss said:
    Charles said:
    *snip*

    We would have to do what Mary Jo Foley's does. Sneeking around, talking folks up, funny business.  I'm in!

     

    -Josh

    Nah. The Niner would be our special guest and would therefore not have to sneak around... Smiley
    C

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    See this:

     

    RADICAL 2010

     

    Motivation

     

    RADICAL is a workshop on databases and programming languages, with an emphasis on connections between databases and recent advances in type systems and logics, especially dependent type systems incorporating data constraints.

     

    We aim to cover significant recent developments in directions including (but not limited to) the following:

    • Language-integrated query mechanisms transform code in typed programming languages into forms suitable for efficient execution by relational database back-ends. Examples include the use of monads, pioneered in Haskell, in systems such as Microsoft LINQ, Links, and Ferry. Another example is SGL, a declarative language for massive multi-player games, which compiles to efficient relational queries.
    • Grammars, context free or regular, can be seen as types, and hence allow textual data to be imported into typed data models (as in PADS, various XML systems, and Microsoft's M Grammar).
    • Information flow type systems, developed in the area of language-based security, are starting to be applied to database systems, for example, to help track data provenance, confidentiality, and integrity.
    • Systems of dependent types including data constraints (as in eg Z, VDM, etc) have long been able to express database integrity constraints, but with recent advances in automation (eg SMT solvers) typecheckers can now verify statically that queries and updates respect these constraints.
    • The dream of verified software stacks is starting to come true, thanks in no small part to advanced type systems found in interactive proof assistants. Recent work on verified implementations of database systems starts to address the correctness question for database implementations.
    • Workflow and database systems are essential components of many enterprises, but often have difficulties interoperating. Ideas such as temporal logic from the verification community are being imported into databases to help monitor and verify the interactions between workflows and databases.
    • Finally, according to many metrics SQL is not just the most successful declarative language of the 1970s but of all time. But SQL is indeed a creation of the 1970s and since then research on declarative languages and type systems in particular has made much progress. Many researchers share the dream of eventually replacing SQL with a higher-level, safer, easier-to-use database programming language. We see the research directions covered by RADICAL 2010 as steps toward this dream.

    I'm not sure how to incorporate these topics but they sure look interesting.

     

    It's also worth noting that Oracle, having aquired Sun Microsystems, now owns both a formiddable set of database and virtual machine technology, so it would be surprising if we didn't see more action in the database integration space.

  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    exoteric said:

    See this:

     

    RADICAL 2010

     

    Motivation

     

    RADICAL is a workshop on databases and programming languages, with an emphasis on connections between databases and recent advances in type systems and logics, especially dependent type systems incorporating data constraints.

     

    We aim to cover significant recent developments in directions including (but not limited to) the following:

    • Language-integrated query mechanisms transform code in typed programming languages into forms suitable for efficient execution by relational database back-ends. Examples include the use of monads, pioneered in Haskell, in systems such as Microsoft LINQ, Links, and Ferry. Another example is SGL, a declarative language for massive multi-player games, which compiles to efficient relational queries.
    • Grammars, context free or regular, can be seen as types, and hence allow textual data to be imported into typed data models (as in PADS, various XML systems, and Microsoft's M Grammar).
    • Information flow type systems, developed in the area of language-based security, are starting to be applied to database systems, for example, to help track data provenance, confidentiality, and integrity.
    • Systems of dependent types including data constraints (as in eg Z, VDM, etc) have long been able to express database integrity constraints, but with recent advances in automation (eg SMT solvers) typecheckers can now verify statically that queries and updates respect these constraints.
    • The dream of verified software stacks is starting to come true, thanks in no small part to advanced type systems found in interactive proof assistants. Recent work on verified implementations of database systems starts to address the correctness question for database implementations.
    • Workflow and database systems are essential components of many enterprises, but often have difficulties interoperating. Ideas such as temporal logic from the verification community are being imported into databases to help monitor and verify the interactions between workflows and databases.
    • Finally, according to many metrics SQL is not just the most successful declarative language of the 1970s but of all time. But SQL is indeed a creation of the 1970s and since then research on declarative languages and type systems in particular has made much progress. Many researchers share the dream of eventually replacing SQL with a higher-level, safer, easier-to-use database programming language. We see the research directions covered by RADICAL 2010 as steps toward this dream.

    I'm not sure how to incorporate these topics but they sure look interesting.

     

    It's also worth noting that Oracle, having aquired Sun Microsystems, now owns both a formiddable set of database and virtual machine technology, so it would be surprising if we didn't see more action in the database integration space.

    And how does this ctrl-v business relate to this thread? Do you want more M coverage?

     

    Smiley

  • User profile image
    Minh

    MasterPie said:
    Bas said:
    *snip*

    +1 Minh is my hero

    Thanks dad!

  • User profile image
    Minh

    blowdart said:
    exoteric said:
    *snip*

    By interview you mean plummel with large sticks right? No? Just me?

    Me + Octagon + blowdart + C9 dev team...

     

    "Let's get ready to RUUUUUUUUUUUUMBLE!!"

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    JoshRoss said:
    exoteric said:
    *snip*

    And how does this ctrl-v business relate to this thread? Do you want more M coverage?

     

    Smiley

    Isn't it obvious, Josh? Smiley

     

    There's a list of topics in there with practical impact for more or less all developers, at least at some point in time. Some of it has already happened (LINQ, M), some of it is still ahead.

     

    It's the cutting edge between research and technology that fascinates me - pipelining advanced ideas into new products. A subsequent topic is how these things are then applied internally (dogfooding); especially because Microsoft is one of its own largest customers and how they solve their problems is worthwhile to hear about. Success stories in other words (or potentially, failure stories.)

     

    I also can't wait to see RxC++ roll out, and that's not as a C++ developer but just to experience better products as a result of this technology and to carry over lessons learned to C# and .NET development, where possible, or vice versa.

     

    I think Charles knows best who to talk to and when, so the list can be seen as a list of topics to dive into. I'll leave it up to C9 on how to materialize it, they've been doing fine in the past.

     

    I will say that two people that do interesting things that it would be interesting to hear from again are: Eric Lippert (great blog, underexposed here) and Joe Duffy (also great blog, also underexposed here).

     

    Minh: Boxing? ... I had imagined wrestling heh

  • User profile image
    Minh

    exoteric said:
    JoshRoss said:
    *snip*

    Isn't it obvious, Josh? Smiley

     

    There's a list of topics in there with practical impact for more or less all developers, at least at some point in time. Some of it has already happened (LINQ, M), some of it is still ahead.

     

    It's the cutting edge between research and technology that fascinates me - pipelining advanced ideas into new products. A subsequent topic is how these things are then applied internally (dogfooding); especially because Microsoft is one of its own largest customers and how they solve their problems is worthwhile to hear about. Success stories in other words (or potentially, failure stories.)

     

    I also can't wait to see RxC++ roll out, and that's not as a C++ developer but just to experience better products as a result of this technology and to carry over lessons learned to C# and .NET development, where possible, or vice versa.

     

    I think Charles knows best who to talk to and when, so the list can be seen as a list of topics to dive into. I'll leave it up to C9 on how to materialize it, they've been doing fine in the past.

     

    I will say that two people that do interesting things that it would be interesting to hear from again are: Eric Lippert (great blog, underexposed here) and Joe Duffy (also great blog, also underexposed here).

     

    Minh: Boxing? ... I had imagined wrestling heh

    I can box a little... My Wii Boxing score is thru the roof... But I much prefer MMA... you can do much more damage Smiley

  • User profile image
    Charles

    exoteric said:
    JoshRoss said:
    *snip*

    Isn't it obvious, Josh? Smiley

     

    There's a list of topics in there with practical impact for more or less all developers, at least at some point in time. Some of it has already happened (LINQ, M), some of it is still ahead.

     

    It's the cutting edge between research and technology that fascinates me - pipelining advanced ideas into new products. A subsequent topic is how these things are then applied internally (dogfooding); especially because Microsoft is one of its own largest customers and how they solve their problems is worthwhile to hear about. Success stories in other words (or potentially, failure stories.)

     

    I also can't wait to see RxC++ roll out, and that's not as a C++ developer but just to experience better products as a result of this technology and to carry over lessons learned to C# and .NET development, where possible, or vice versa.

     

    I think Charles knows best who to talk to and when, so the list can be seen as a list of topics to dive into. I'll leave it up to C9 on how to materialize it, they've been doing fine in the past.

     

    I will say that two people that do interesting things that it would be interesting to hear from again are: Eric Lippert (great blog, underexposed here) and Joe Duffy (also great blog, also underexposed here).

     

    Minh: Boxing? ... I had imagined wrestling heh

    I will get Eric to come on. He's got a lot to teach us. In terms of Joe, well he's working on a private incubation... I'll see if he has anything not related to what he's doing to talk about (he's also incredibly busy, so don't hold your breath...).

     

    C

  • User profile image
    RamblingGeek​UK

    I want to see like a beginners course in development.  Talking about when to use linq or when to use the entity framework, MCV 2 why?  When to use a technology and when not to use technology.   For the lone hobbyist developer who is self-taught but has many many questions and gaps in their knowledge.

     

     

  • User profile image
    felix9

    Charles said:
    exoteric said:
    *snip*

    I will get Eric to come on. He's got a lot to teach us. In terms of Joe, well he's working on a private incubation... I'll see if he has anything not related to what he's doing to talk about (he's also incredibly busy, so don't hold your breath...).

     

    C

    ah, there are too many of the greatest guys working on that 'incubation' project and become invisible and 'extremely busy', hmmm....

     

    so, any chances for other great ones, like eh.... Herb Sutter ? Neal Gafter ? Remond Chen ? just a few examples

  • User profile image
    Charles

    felix9 said:
    Charles said:
    *snip*

    ah, there are too many of the greatest guys working on that 'incubation' project and become invisible and 'extremely busy', hmmm....

     

    so, any chances for other great ones, like eh.... Herb Sutter ? Neal Gafter ? Remond Chen ? just a few examples

    Yes. Chen is not interested, however (never has been....). Sutter will be on again. Not sure about Neal.

    C

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