Coffeehouse Thread

36 posts

Lost Niners

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    Does anyone know what happened to Sabot? He kind of fell off the grid. For what it is worth, I enjoyed reading his posts.

     

    -Josh

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    And GooberDLX and LittleGuru.

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    From what I can tell on FB, he's having loads of fun. Wink

  • User profile image
    aL_

    ZippyV said:

    And GooberDLX and LittleGuru.

    littleguru has probably been fully assimilated by now

  • User profile image
    androidi

    Well I can't speak for them however I have observed myself visiting the site less and less. Whether it is result of less interesting stuff in Coffeehouse or less interesting videos is hard to say. It could be both if the people writing interesting stuff in Coffeehouse also visited Coffeehouse more because of the video content few years back was of more interest to them. There's an electronics design blog called eevblog and the guy who runs it posed a question why do people watch it since it's really not efficient to convey information in the video format. The commentators answered that they watch it mostly for entertainment value (ala infotainment documentaries) despite the initial appearances of a more serious electronics blog (there's certainly also some long time industry people watching among hobbyists judging from the comments).

     

    I still watch the videos occasionally here when there's something of particular interest but since the entertainment value in average has gone way down in time, I rather watch say those eevblog videos when I got spare time (and because I like the low/system level stuff more than the high level new gimmick stuff in C9 video). You might want to check it out if you enjoyed c9 videos in the first year. http://www.eevblog.com/episodes (the eps are generally 5-10 min except the latest ep#100 that's a clipping of all previous eps and the 2 part Multimeter ep which isn't worth 2 hours despite being excellent - result: work the 2 hours and save for a Fluke brand meter which was reviewed earlier)

     

    Now if whatever is being done on C9 works for MS thats fine but certainly the content and it's delivery frequency and style has changed so much that it's reasonable to assume the audience interested in regularly visiting the site must also change.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    androidi said:

    Well I can't speak for them however I have observed myself visiting the site less and less. Whether it is result of less interesting stuff in Coffeehouse or less interesting videos is hard to say. It could be both if the people writing interesting stuff in Coffeehouse also visited Coffeehouse more because of the video content few years back was of more interest to them. There's an electronics design blog called eevblog and the guy who runs it posed a question why do people watch it since it's really not efficient to convey information in the video format. The commentators answered that they watch it mostly for entertainment value (ala infotainment documentaries) despite the initial appearances of a more serious electronics blog (there's certainly also some long time industry people watching among hobbyists judging from the comments).

     

    I still watch the videos occasionally here when there's something of particular interest but since the entertainment value in average has gone way down in time, I rather watch say those eevblog videos when I got spare time (and because I like the low/system level stuff more than the high level new gimmick stuff in C9 video). You might want to check it out if you enjoyed c9 videos in the first year. http://www.eevblog.com/episodes (the eps are generally 5-10 min except the latest ep#100 that's a clipping of all previous eps and the 2 part Multimeter ep which isn't worth 2 hours despite being excellent - result: work the 2 hours and save for a Fluke brand meter which was reviewed earlier)

     

    Now if whatever is being done on C9 works for MS thats fine but certainly the content and it's delivery frequency and style has changed so much that it's reasonable to assume the audience interested in regularly visiting the site must also change.

    Electronics is a highly specialised area, so saying channel 9 should focus on eevblog material is a little jaded (I am a mechanical engineeer). Yes non-powerpoint material is good but even the powerpoint stuff comes into use sooner or later.

     

     

    Yes it is easy to deride some content with the offensive word 'marketing' but there is a lot of great material, with this a more recent and excellent example.

     

    I don't doubt that in 5 years you will have moved on from eevblog, and visit the blog less frequently, that is the way the cookie crumbles.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    Speaking of lost niners, then evildictaitor was a good un. Hope he returns some day.

  • User profile image
    Dan

    androidi said:

    Well I can't speak for them however I have observed myself visiting the site less and less. Whether it is result of less interesting stuff in Coffeehouse or less interesting videos is hard to say. It could be both if the people writing interesting stuff in Coffeehouse also visited Coffeehouse more because of the video content few years back was of more interest to them. There's an electronics design blog called eevblog and the guy who runs it posed a question why do people watch it since it's really not efficient to convey information in the video format. The commentators answered that they watch it mostly for entertainment value (ala infotainment documentaries) despite the initial appearances of a more serious electronics blog (there's certainly also some long time industry people watching among hobbyists judging from the comments).

     

    I still watch the videos occasionally here when there's something of particular interest but since the entertainment value in average has gone way down in time, I rather watch say those eevblog videos when I got spare time (and because I like the low/system level stuff more than the high level new gimmick stuff in C9 video). You might want to check it out if you enjoyed c9 videos in the first year. http://www.eevblog.com/episodes (the eps are generally 5-10 min except the latest ep#100 that's a clipping of all previous eps and the 2 part Multimeter ep which isn't worth 2 hours despite being excellent - result: work the 2 hours and save for a Fluke brand meter which was reviewed earlier)

     

    Now if whatever is being done on C9 works for MS thats fine but certainly the content and it's delivery frequency and style has changed so much that it's reasonable to assume the audience interested in regularly visiting the site must also change.

    When you mention low-level videos, I really look at Charles as the go-to person for these type of videos. Not only does he have a sincere personal passion in this area, he does a great job of interviewing super technical people.

     

    On the content front, it's certainly true that we've added lots more contributors and different styles of content over the last few years, especially compared to when Charles was practically the only contributor on C9, but he is still turning out a huge number of videos and this number has increased in the last two years. To be clear though, when we did our customer survey on niners, there is a wide variety of interests, ranging from classic Channel 9  interviews (in the office) to more screencasts with people showing code, to more educational and learning content, to requests for non-developer content as many niners aren't necessarily developers, but are interested in Xbox, Windows Phone, etc, and of course requests for interviews with specific people, with Erik Meijer being the most popular request Smiley 

     

    The point isn't that we replace one type of content with another, but rather that we work on adding content in all of these areas, so we shouldn't be doing less low-level videos on Channel 9, we should be doing more (of all types of content).  

     

    As Vesuvius mentioned, Charles's lecture series with lectures on a variety of topics from algorithms to functional programming series have been really well received by niners and it stands today as some of the top-rated and viewed content this year.  I know Charles has a lot more planned and he's always listening for feedback, so if you have suggestions, as always, let us know.

     

    Cheers,

    -Dan

     

     

     

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    The Coffeehouse is sometimes plagued by politics, trolls and die-hard nay-sayers. TechOff does something which StackOverflow does better. This is perhaps an area which detracts some followers.

     

    I find the best place to be the video posts, in particular lecture series where like-minded people discuss technical issues about something they're all enthusiastic about. Learning from, listening to and discussing with the best and brightest is never boring.

     

    As a developer, Going Deep (and similar shows) is at the heart of it all. There is a large outer shell around this core which is great and entertaining, as long as the core remains intact.

     

    My 1 cent.

     

    Smiley

  • User profile image
    Charles

    Dan said:
    androidi said:
    *snip*

    When you mention low-level videos, I really look at Charles as the go-to person for these type of videos. Not only does he have a sincere personal passion in this area, he does a great job of interviewing super technical people.

     

    On the content front, it's certainly true that we've added lots more contributors and different styles of content over the last few years, especially compared to when Charles was practically the only contributor on C9, but he is still turning out a huge number of videos and this number has increased in the last two years. To be clear though, when we did our customer survey on niners, there is a wide variety of interests, ranging from classic Channel 9  interviews (in the office) to more screencasts with people showing code, to more educational and learning content, to requests for non-developer content as many niners aren't necessarily developers, but are interested in Xbox, Windows Phone, etc, and of course requests for interviews with specific people, with Erik Meijer being the most popular request Smiley 

     

    The point isn't that we replace one type of content with another, but rather that we work on adding content in all of these areas, so we shouldn't be doing less low-level videos on Channel 9, we should be doing more (of all types of content).  

     

    As Vesuvius mentioned, Charles's lecture series with lectures on a variety of topics from algorithms to functional programming series have been really well received by niners and it stands today as some of the top-rated and viewed content this year.  I know Charles has a lot more planned and he's always listening for feedback, so if you have suggestions, as always, let us know.

     

    Cheers,

    -Dan

     

     

     

    Thanks, Dan. Well said.

     

    Indeed, there is much more deep content on the horizon (from new series on monadic programming, category theory, type classes, F#, C#, C++, functional programming, language design, etc) and with the new site it should be easier for folks to find the content that best suits their interests, needs and wants. .Also, with a heterogeneous catbird, the homepage should better reflect a variety of featured content.

     

    We offer more content choices than we have ever before. The C9 content team is cranking on all cylinders and I for one really appreciate that there is real variety for a broad audience. My target audience is titled towards developers/architects/technical students and scientists, as it has always been. Hearing that we are missing something on this specific front is unfortunate, especially given the number of high quality technical videos being produced by several developers (not just me, as Dan pointed out...).

     

    As Dan mentioned, just tell us what you want to see and we will deliver.

     

    What's missing exactly, Androidi?

     

    Keep on posting,

    C

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    Charles said:
    Dan said:
    *snip*

    Thanks, Dan. Well said.

     

    Indeed, there is much more deep content on the horizon (from new series on monadic programming, category theory, type classes, F#, C#, C++, functional programming, language design, etc) and with the new site it should be easier for folks to find the content that best suits their interests, needs and wants. .Also, with a heterogeneous catbird, the homepage should better reflect a variety of featured content.

     

    We offer more content choices than we have ever before. The C9 content team is cranking on all cylinders and I for one really appreciate that there is real variety for a broad audience. My target audience is titled towards developers/architects/technical students and scientists, as it has always been. Hearing that we are missing something on this specific front is unfortunate, especially given the number of high quality technical videos being produced by several developers (not just me, as Dan pointed out...).

     

    As Dan mentioned, just tell us what you want to see and we will deliver.

     

    What's missing exactly, Androidi?

     

    Keep on posting,

    C

    I think sometimes your audience is not ready or aware that they are looking for stuff that is right underneath their nose, so that is the biggest problem. I don't want to sound patronising to Androidi or any other gifted niners, but this does happen quite a lot.

     

    Channel 9 produces a lot of material that I find hard to keep up, and the variety is there if you look for it, especially if you include the technet website. I hope discoverability improves with the new website, especially the linking of related content.

     

    Trolls are now quite easily identified and treated with tolerance, but that is an occurence in all popular sites and fora, so you just accept it and try not to let it distract you from the great material.

  • User profile image
    androidi

    I didn't say I was certain it was because of "less interesting videos". I just speculated it as one possible reason. Maybe the reason is part what vesuvius mentioned and part the frequent problems the site has had in usability in its current incarnation combined with the flood of material being posted with no way to say that I'd like some systems/hardware and language related stuff on the front page even if I already watched it rather than bunch of stuff that is of no interest (poor analogy: imagine visiting Google News that once displayed whatever niche/localized stuff you went there for and then one day they'd change the site algorithms and it would show most of time stuff you don't care about).

     

    So while there certainly IS some interesting content now and then, I've just felt the noise has increased and the signal weakened. One of the most important matters in this information age is finding/filtering stuff. Here it seems that the "noise content" on the front page (and videos page) increased while those pages didn't grow equally in ability to filter the noise out.

     

    edit: "filtering out" was poor choice of words, categorizing and ranking those categories how they show would do as well. I don't mind some highlights of content from other areas (or upvoted), just a way to customize the view so that it always has the latest stuff in the subject areas I'm interested so I don't have to dig through old videos to see if I missed something interesting because of the higher video posting frequency (which doesn't help when I'm already visiting the site less than before).

     

    Really when you got tons of different subject areas of new content frequently being updated/added in a single page, it just becomes an utter mess and appears like poor s/n if you don't happen to be interested in all those subjects. That's why Google News has the Top Stories (~highlights or upvoted stories) and selections of areas you can personalize.

     

  • User profile image
    Charles

    androidi said:

    I didn't say I was certain it was because of "less interesting videos". I just speculated it as one possible reason. Maybe the reason is part what vesuvius mentioned and part the frequent problems the site has had in usability in its current incarnation combined with the flood of material being posted with no way to say that I'd like some systems/hardware and language related stuff on the front page even if I already watched it rather than bunch of stuff that is of no interest (poor analogy: imagine visiting Google News that once displayed whatever niche/localized stuff you went there for and then one day they'd change the site algorithms and it would show most of time stuff you don't care about).

     

    So while there certainly IS some interesting content now and then, I've just felt the noise has increased and the signal weakened. One of the most important matters in this information age is finding/filtering stuff. Here it seems that the "noise content" on the front page (and videos page) increased while those pages didn't grow equally in ability to filter the noise out.

     

    edit: "filtering out" was poor choice of words, categorizing and ranking those categories how they show would do as well. I don't mind some highlights of content from other areas (or upvoted), just a way to customize the view so that it always has the latest stuff in the subject areas I'm interested so I don't have to dig through old videos to see if I missed something interesting because of the higher video posting frequency (which doesn't help when I'm already visiting the site less than before).

     

    Really when you got tons of different subject areas of new content frequently being updated/added in a single page, it just becomes an utter mess and appears like poor s/n if you don't happen to be interested in all those subjects. That's why Google News has the Top Stories (~highlights or upvoted stories) and selections of areas you can personalize.

     

    Great feedback. That said, this is precisely why we created shows, series and tags. Obviously, we've done a mediocre job of making this stuff discoverable from the home page. In the new UI, you should spend most of your time on the Browse page. This should quickly get you to what you want. I will also commit to making sure the home page better represents a cross section of what he have to offer, rather than having it fill up with too much random stuff. I guess that's the problem you are stating, right? For example, since we have a three-pronged catbird (featured items), the onus is on us to ensure that the featured items are all not of the same content type. Rather, it should reflect the 3 main audiences we now target: Software Developers,Techincal Enthusiasts and Advanced Users/Consumers.

     

    You're a long time Niner who has contributed a lot to the forums over the years. I really value your feedback because you get what we're about and helped us become who we are. Make no mistake, we have changed, but this change did not involve the removal of our core, our kernel. Not at all. In fact, the C9 Kernel is as strong as ever. The shell has changed, many new features have been added over the years, very large numbers of MS contributors who are not associated with the Channel 9 team, but who understand the C9 fundamentals, are producing high quality technical content for developers - when it is clear they do not get 9, we teach them.

     

    I like the idea of user-controlled top stories and personalization. In future releases, I'd love to see the ability for Niners to have declaritive control over what they see when they hit C9. By declarative I mean the ability to provide the site with information that it uses to generate their preferences: "I am a developer and want to see techincal content related to systems programming, technology X, technology Y, etc. I am only interested in viewing content in English. Etc...".

     

    C

  • User profile image
    Steve411

    ZippyV said:

    And GooberDLX and LittleGuru.

    GooberDLX is always on Facebook. He has been releasing a lot of very cool online tools that have even been published in major articles... Like drop.io

     

    http://www.facebook.com/jake.good

  • User profile image
    Dan

    Charles said:
    androidi said:
    *snip*

    Great feedback. That said, this is precisely why we created shows, series and tags. Obviously, we've done a mediocre job of making this stuff discoverable from the home page. In the new UI, you should spend most of your time on the Browse page. This should quickly get you to what you want. I will also commit to making sure the home page better represents a cross section of what he have to offer, rather than having it fill up with too much random stuff. I guess that's the problem you are stating, right? For example, since we have a three-pronged catbird (featured items), the onus is on us to ensure that the featured items are all not of the same content type. Rather, it should reflect the 3 main audiences we now target: Software Developers,Techincal Enthusiasts and Advanced Users/Consumers.

     

    You're a long time Niner who has contributed a lot to the forums over the years. I really value your feedback because you get what we're about and helped us become who we are. Make no mistake, we have changed, but this change did not involve the removal of our core, our kernel. Not at all. In fact, the C9 Kernel is as strong as ever. The shell has changed, many new features have been added over the years, very large numbers of MS contributors who are not associated with the Channel 9 team, but who understand the C9 fundamentals, are producing high quality technical content for developers - when it is clear they do not get 9, we teach them.

     

    I like the idea of user-controlled top stories and personalization. In future releases, I'd love to see the ability for Niners to have declaritive control over what they see when they hit C9. By declarative I mean the ability to provide the site with information that it uses to generate their preferences: "I am a developer and want to see techincal content related to systems programming, technology X, technology Y, etc. I am only interested in viewing content in English. Etc...".

     

    C

    Apologies for ratholing this thread JoshRoss

     

    On this point - I like the idea of user-controlled top stories and personalization. In future releases, I'd love to see the ability for Niners to have declaritive control over what they see when they hit C9. By declarative I mean the ability to provide the site with information that it uses to generate their preferences: "I am a developer and want to see techincal content related to systems programming, technology X, technology Y, etc. I am only interested in viewing content in English. Etc...".

     

    We did disclose that one of the key reasons we moved to a 5-star system is to be able to provide Amazon/Netflix style suggestions for niners based on content they've previously rated. That means you won't have to go through a bunch of checkboxes to select the tags/topics or the people in the video you'd be interested in, instead, just rate videos and, based on similar users, we can implicitly find videos that you may find interesting without you having to manually configure settings.

  • User profile image
    Charles

    Dan said:
    Charles said:
    *snip*

    Apologies for ratholing this thread JoshRoss

     

    On this point - I like the idea of user-controlled top stories and personalization. In future releases, I'd love to see the ability for Niners to have declaritive control over what they see when they hit C9. By declarative I mean the ability to provide the site with information that it uses to generate their preferences: "I am a developer and want to see techincal content related to systems programming, technology X, technology Y, etc. I am only interested in viewing content in English. Etc...".

     

    We did disclose that one of the key reasons we moved to a 5-star system is to be able to provide Amazon/Netflix style suggestions for niners based on content they've previously rated. That means you won't have to go through a bunch of checkboxes to select the tags/topics or the people in the video you'd be interested in, instead, just rate videos and, based on similar users, we can implicitly find videos that you may find interesting without you having to manually configure settings.

    Ratholing is fun! Smiley

     

    Hopefully, many more folks will rate content to make this idea effective.

     

    In terms of lost Niners, I miss one in particular who was our best tester: Loadsgood. Many good bugs he found. Also, where is irascian? Karim? Lars?

    C

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    I am still around Tongue Out -- working a lot and therefore having not so much time but I am reading stuff and watching the frontpage videos whenever I can.

     

    You know - my "Dallas" baby needs to be shipped!

  • User profile image
    Charles

    littleguru said:

    I am still around Tongue Out -- working a lot and therefore having not so much time but I am reading stuff and watching the frontpage videos whenever I can.

     

    You know - my "Dallas" baby needs to be shipped!

    Go, go, go!!!!

    C

Comments closed

Comments have been closed since this content was published more than 30 days ago, but if you'd like to continue the conversation, please create a new thread in our Forums, or Contact Us and let us know.