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Microsoft outside the US

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  • User profile image
    webmonkey

    daSmirnov said:
    CreamFilling512 said:
    *snip*

    In Britain we get Sky, (pay for satellite TV for those not in the know), but we still need to pay extra to get it on the Xbox 360, even if we have a Sky subscription.

     

    I'd much rather have BBC iPlayer on the Xbox 360.  Luckily both the Wii and PS3 support it instead.  But it's still annoying to turn the PS3 on just to stream some TV off iPlayer when the Xbox is used for everything else including Media Center and recorded TV.

    I seem to remember there were rumors of this and that the BBC said no because Microsoft wanted to develop a custom UI to fit in with the Xbox. I don't know if there's any truth in this though.

     

    Are there apps for the ps3 & wii now or is it still through the browser?

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    webmonkey said:
    daSmirnov said:
    *snip*

    I seem to remember there were rumors of this and that the BBC said no because Microsoft wanted to develop a custom UI to fit in with the Xbox. I don't know if there's any truth in this though.

     

    Are there apps for the ps3 & wii now or is it still through the browser?

    The reason why there is no iPlayer for the XBox 360 is because Microsoft wanted to make the iPlayer only available to paying Xbox Live subscribers.

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    ZippyV said:
    webmonkey said:
    *snip*

    The reason why there is no iPlayer for the XBox 360 is because Microsoft wanted to make the iPlayer only available to paying Xbox Live subscribers.

    Still,

    No Xbox costumer <=> Only Gold Costumers , it's a shame... They should have done it. It would open up eyes and maybe even be jump for people to go gold and experience 'premium content'

     

    Ps: good night to you to Wink

  • User profile image
    aL_

    could not agree more..

    consider bing.. its still beta in sweden and its been out for years

    that is just lazy.. if it takes that long to push a site though the cdn then microsoft has some serious problems. Tongue Out

     

    i havent seen a single ms ad here in sweden since the .net 1 ads from the 90ties, and they wonder why market share is droping. yea, what a mystery.

     

    xbox support outside the us is atrocious ofcource, i cant imagine why any sane person would pay a dime for xbox live outside the us.. Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    Bas

    aL_ said:

    could not agree more..

    consider bing.. its still beta in sweden and its been out for years

    that is just lazy.. if it takes that long to push a site though the cdn then microsoft has some serious problems. Tongue Out

     

    i havent seen a single ms ad here in sweden since the .net 1 ads from the 90ties, and they wonder why market share is droping. yea, what a mystery.

     

    xbox support outside the us is atrocious ofcource, i cant imagine why any sane person would pay a dime for xbox live outside the us.. Tongue Out

    Bing is another one of those things. In the US, bing is great. Over here, there's not even video search. No maps, no travel... I'm looking at it now and it's like looking at Altavista back in the nineties, except with image search. I realise the whole shopping etc. thing requires heavy localisation and deals with stores and such, which takes time, but if Media Center or Windows Speech Recognition are an example that'll simply never happen.

     

    I thought of another one: WP7. No localised version coming out here until well into next year. Also no app store. They talked about how maybe they're going to release the English version over here, but you wouldn't be able to buy anything on the app store because there won't be an app store. You might be able to download stuff from the US/English app store, but only if it's free. No paid apps. Not until an unspecified time in 2011. Which usually means a year after the general release date. What a way to push a new platform!

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    Do you guys agree that a European Developper campus would be a good start to solve these problems?

     

    Like Bing it's hard to make it work in other languages. But that is no reason not de work on it! Bing is the default home page if you download IE over here. Why would you do that if the experience is not what you want people to have?

     

    Lots of reasons we are so frustrated is because microsoft does not seem to try to make deals and partner up with local companies. The companies who provide our day to day entertainment. In America you have ESPN comming to Xbox , Hulu , Netflix ... , in Europe we have similar channels like Eurosport , BBC , National Geographic and locally decent every broadcasting station has there own 'On Demand' service. Talk to them and explain the benifit of Xbox content access. Most people indeed allready have a set-up-box from the local provider providing on demand services. But the Xbox is probably not always connected to the main TV like the set-up-box is. An Xbox in a childs room could then be used to stream content to the second tv. And there a lot of those setups!

  • User profile image
    Bas

    CKurt said:

    Do you guys agree that a European Developper campus would be a good start to solve these problems?

     

    Like Bing it's hard to make it work in other languages. But that is no reason not de work on it! Bing is the default home page if you download IE over here. Why would you do that if the experience is not what you want people to have?

     

    Lots of reasons we are so frustrated is because microsoft does not seem to try to make deals and partner up with local companies. The companies who provide our day to day entertainment. In America you have ESPN comming to Xbox , Hulu , Netflix ... , in Europe we have similar channels like Eurosport , BBC , National Geographic and locally decent every broadcasting station has there own 'On Demand' service. Talk to them and explain the benifit of Xbox content access. Most people indeed allready have a set-up-box from the local provider providing on demand services. But the Xbox is probably not always connected to the main TV like the set-up-box is. An Xbox in a childs room could then be used to stream content to the second tv. And there a lot of those setups!

    Not sure if a developer campus would solve things. The technology is already there, it's just the business side that's completely lacking. 

    For consumer-oriented stuff, anyway.

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    Bas said:
    CKurt said:
    *snip*

    Not sure if a developer campus would solve things. The technology is already there, it's just the business side that's completely lacking. 

    For consumer-oriented stuff, anyway.

    There would always be some developper stuff going on. Creating the Interface for Xbox/Media Center and talking to the right endpoints for the service. Also setting up the broadcasters service to be able to talk to the UI.

     

    It would be good those developpers have direct contact with the business people. A good workflow makes half of a good product.

    The should be a Microsoft Europe instead of Microsoft Benelux , Microsoft France , Microsoft Spain.

  • User profile image
    mdtauk

    As a brit myself, there are a few things I should mention.

     

    Firstly, the video service on Xbox is absolute crud.  The worst selection of films you could ever imagine, no tv shows at all.

    Media Centre and Xbox get support for Sky Player, which is a small selection of live channels, catchup and video on demand, which you need to be a sky subscriber to recieve, or pay for an online only subscription.

     

    Media centre does not support Internet TV, but has a service called msn video, which seems never to be updated, and has a selection of video on demand programming.

     

    The BBC is our national broadcaster.  They also have the best online service bar none in the UK.  It is provided only to UK citizens for free without any kind of advertising, because the cost of running it comes from a form of taxation called the License Fee.  If you own a television, radio, or an online device which supports viewing BBC iPlayer.

     

    As part of its policy of providing access to iPlayer content on as many devices as possible, for free to License Fee payers, it has iPhone, Android, apps in development, awaiting permission to launch.  It has also created a unique Wii client, and an Adobe Air powered time-limited download service, as well as the iPlayer website itself.

    The BBC have been working with Microsoft for years on the iPlayer features, but when it came to the Xbox version of iPlayer, they could not force people to pay again for an Xbox Live Gold subscription to access it, and Microsoft refused to budge.  There was talk of a Windows Media Centre version of iPlayer, but this has not emerged.  I do not think Microsoft are trying hard enough to support the BBC in this, because it is essentially a non-commercial prospect.

     

    Now onto other Microsoft shortcomings in the UK/Europe.

     

    • Zune HD never released.
    • Zune service not yet available.
    • Incomprehensible Zune Software restrictions (which I have to bypass for it to be fully functional) I can understand there being no Zune music yet - with deals to be done and windows phones to be released - by why no access to podcasts, and the existing miserable movie selections.
    • Microsoft Stores show no signs of ever leaving the US.
    • Higher prices to pay for everything.
    • Apart from MS Research, and a few game studios, Microsoft have no developers in the UK, and I doubt any outside of Redmond.  The computer was invented here, so why is it so undervalued!?!?
    • Bing!  Bing maps were recently updated with a new design, but check the map, the UK is the ONLY location still using the old Map designs.
    • No Bing map Street Views either!

     

    I know there is probably many more issues in the rest of europe, but I cant comment on those.  The UK has still got a strong brand loyalty to Microsoft, but we get such a raw deal in the consumer space.  Windows Phone is out soon, the first product since the Xbox 360 in the UK from Microsoft for the consumer.  The UK gets it first in October, but what will the various services look like that are needed to support the phones.  

     

    • Will we get a FULL zune music, video, podcast, social experience?  
    • Will zune connect to windows live?  
    • Will bing maps be fully featured for all those local and web searches?  
    • How much more will UK buyers have to spend for the app marketplace?  
    • Will we be able to use Microsoft Points on Windows Phone 7, Zune Marketplace, and Xbox?  
    • Will we get British English translations for words like colour and favourites, not even Windows 7 gives us localization in British English?
    • Will the UK get a strong marketing campaign for WP7?

     

    So many questions, which we need to ask, because of the way we have experienced Microsoft in the past.  If we can ever get to a point where we can hear a Microsoft announcement, and not have to wonder if we will ever see the product in our country, will be the day Microsoft starts to really establish themselves in the consumer space, and will earn mind-share from their users.

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    mdtauk said:

    As a brit myself, there are a few things I should mention.

     

    Firstly, the video service on Xbox is absolute crud.  The worst selection of films you could ever imagine, no tv shows at all.

    Media Centre and Xbox get support for Sky Player, which is a small selection of live channels, catchup and video on demand, which you need to be a sky subscriber to recieve, or pay for an online only subscription.

     

    Media centre does not support Internet TV, but has a service called msn video, which seems never to be updated, and has a selection of video on demand programming.

     

    The BBC is our national broadcaster.  They also have the best online service bar none in the UK.  It is provided only to UK citizens for free without any kind of advertising, because the cost of running it comes from a form of taxation called the License Fee.  If you own a television, radio, or an online device which supports viewing BBC iPlayer.

     

    As part of its policy of providing access to iPlayer content on as many devices as possible, for free to License Fee payers, it has iPhone, Android, apps in development, awaiting permission to launch.  It has also created a unique Wii client, and an Adobe Air powered time-limited download service, as well as the iPlayer website itself.

    The BBC have been working with Microsoft for years on the iPlayer features, but when it came to the Xbox version of iPlayer, they could not force people to pay again for an Xbox Live Gold subscription to access it, and Microsoft refused to budge.  There was talk of a Windows Media Centre version of iPlayer, but this has not emerged.  I do not think Microsoft are trying hard enough to support the BBC in this, because it is essentially a non-commercial prospect.

     

    Now onto other Microsoft shortcomings in the UK/Europe.

     

    • Zune HD never released.
    • Zune service not yet available.
    • Incomprehensible Zune Software restrictions (which I have to bypass for it to be fully functional) I can understand there being no Zune music yet - with deals to be done and windows phones to be released - by why no access to podcasts, and the existing miserable movie selections.
    • Microsoft Stores show no signs of ever leaving the US.
    • Higher prices to pay for everything.
    • Apart from MS Research, and a few game studios, Microsoft have no developers in the UK, and I doubt any outside of Redmond.  The computer was invented here, so why is it so undervalued!?!?
    • Bing!  Bing maps were recently updated with a new design, but check the map, the UK is the ONLY location still using the old Map designs.
    • No Bing map Street Views either!

     

    I know there is probably many more issues in the rest of europe, but I cant comment on those.  The UK has still got a strong brand loyalty to Microsoft, but we get such a raw deal in the consumer space.  Windows Phone is out soon, the first product since the Xbox 360 in the UK from Microsoft for the consumer.  The UK gets it first in October, but what will the various services look like that are needed to support the phones.  

     

    • Will we get a FULL zune music, video, podcast, social experience?  
    • Will zune connect to windows live?  
    • Will bing maps be fully featured for all those local and web searches?  
    • How much more will UK buyers have to spend for the app marketplace?  
    • Will we be able to use Microsoft Points on Windows Phone 7, Zune Marketplace, and Xbox?  
    • Will we get British English translations for words like colour and favourites, not even Windows 7 gives us localization in British English?
    • Will the UK get a strong marketing campaign for WP7?

     

    So many questions, which we need to ask, because of the way we have experienced Microsoft in the past.  If we can ever get to a point where we can hear a Microsoft announcement, and not have to wonder if we will ever see the product in our country, will be the day Microsoft starts to really establish themselves in the consumer space, and will earn mind-share from their users.

    I agree, it's a real shame and something needs to be done about it.


    So many questions, which we need to ask, because of the way we have experienced Microsoft in the past.  If we can ever get to a point where we can hear a Microsoft announcement, and not have to wonder if we will ever see the product in our country, will be the day Microsoft starts to really establish themselves in the consumer space, and will earn mind-share from their users.

     

    @Charles: if you locate the right person. The questions mdtauk asked in the fat bulletted list are also ones that are dying to get answered. And since we didn't really hear anything about it. I'm pretty sure it is going to be bad news...

     

  • User profile image
    Bas

    Charles said:
    CKurt said:
    *snip*

    How about I forward your questions to the right folks. There is no need for an interview, right?
    C

    Actually, I'd be pretty interested in an interview.

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    Bas said:
    Charles said:
    *snip*

    Actually, I'd be pretty interested in an interview.

    The question is 'Who would you interview?' , who is resposible for European launches , events , marketing and business deals with local broadcasters? I think there is no such person.

  • User profile image
    giovanni

    I could not agree more with you, but I think there is much more to the problem than just the Microsoft approach (if something works in the US then we might export it eventually): think about copyrights and rights for digital media, think about the release schedule for movies for example. We are moving toward a global economy, when will movies and TV series available worldwide simultaneously (oh I forgot, here in Europe we cannot even agree on the color of signposts for highways, forget a global copyrights system)?

     

    What frustrates me the most about many Microsoft products though is not just global availability, is the mixing of the concept of language and locale. The language should be always selectable independently from the location settings, but this is too often not the case: why zune.net and xbox.com have to be in the language of the billing country?

     

    And selling three proofing tool languages with the MS Office programs is a joke: they should all be included in the installation media.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    CKurt said:
    Bas said:
    *snip*

    The question is 'Who would you interview?' , who is resposible for European launches , events , marketing and business deals with local broadcasters? I think there is no such person.

    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/courtois/?tab=biography

    This guy would be a start.

     

    I wanted to look at Microsoft EMEA's corporate bio's, but that link leads to a page that doesn't exist. IRONY!

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    Bas said:
    CKurt said:
    *snip*

    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/courtois/?tab=biography

    This guy would be a start.

     

    I wanted to look at Microsoft EMEA's corporate bio's, but that link leads to a page that doesn't exist. IRONY!

    Channel 9 interviews are more about talking about technology and architectures and code. Not so much about 'putting people on the spot'. It would have to be a carefull interview, and the questions would have to be given to this person at forhand.

     

    I mean it's more easy to interview people about the new product they are launching then interview them about a failure, without any good news to make you forget the failure. Look at the Rev9 interview, we bashed a lot about the current C9 but there was no video where a person accually admitted he made a mistake untill the Rev9 was released and they could say "We did a bad job at some points in v4 , but look now we have this and this in place to fix those problems"

     

    A C9 interview should not be like a conversation with your boss (altough client is king), it should not be a public confession of where you went wrong. That is for internal politics.

     

    Don't get me wrong, I would love to hear that person talk about the plans for Europe. But we need to make sure not to be like we are going head to head with this. Spark a conversation, tell us why it is so hard to get products launched in Europe. Tell us where you feel you could have done better.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    Well, at least Germany gets bombarded by MS ads.

     

    The German TV station "Kabel 1" has produced together with Microsoft tons of really bad Star Trek spoofs, featuring Internet Explorer 8:

     

    Witness the horror:

     

     

     

     

     

    There are much more...

     

    They get broadcasted together with Star Trek movies/shows.

     

    Not to forget the dreadful "7 seconds" ads:

     

     

    So, the next time you want more MS ads in your country, be careful what you wish for....

  • User profile image
    mdtauk

    CKurt said:
    Bas said:
    *snip*

    Channel 9 interviews are more about talking about technology and architectures and code. Not so much about 'putting people on the spot'. It would have to be a carefull interview, and the questions would have to be given to this person at forhand.

     

    I mean it's more easy to interview people about the new product they are launching then interview them about a failure, without any good news to make you forget the failure. Look at the Rev9 interview, we bashed a lot about the current C9 but there was no video where a person accually admitted he made a mistake untill the Rev9 was released and they could say "We did a bad job at some points in v4 , but look now we have this and this in place to fix those problems"

     

    A C9 interview should not be like a conversation with your boss (altough client is king), it should not be a public confession of where you went wrong. That is for internal politics.

     

    Don't get me wrong, I would love to hear that person talk about the plans for Europe. But we need to make sure not to be like we are going head to head with this. Spark a conversation, tell us why it is so hard to get products launched in Europe. Tell us where you feel you could have done better.

    I would not suggest pressuring anyone.  However I would like to get answers to all the questions.  And if for whatever reason they are not able to answer a specific question, could we at least know why they can not answer it.

     

    If we asked about the full Music selection being available in Europe, and they say "We cannot answer that at this moment".  I think its fair to ask why they can't answer.

     

    The rest of the world has barely heard of Zune, and that's a shame.  Kin was non-existent, and so far, Windows Phone 7 has no presence at all.  Bing gets new features, and it is not reported, or advertised.  There is no one single place in any European cities to go to for Microsoft related products or services.

     

    This is something Microsoft has to address, especially if the cloud is to ever be a success.

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    wastingtimewithforums said:

    Well, at least Germany gets bombarded by MS ads.

     

    The German TV station "Kabel 1" has produced together with Microsoft tons of really bad Star Trek spoofs, featuring Internet Explorer 8:

     

    Witness the horror:

     

     

     

     

     

    There are much more...

     

    They get broadcasted together with Star Trek movies/shows.

     

    Not to forget the dreadful "7 seconds" ads:

     

     

    So, the next time you want more MS ads in your country, be careful what you wish for....

    The internet explorer ads might be bad. But my guess is the Windows 7 , 7 second adds would do good here in Belgium. But it might just be because microsoft feels like "We sell enough of Windows 7 via word of mouth, we don't need advertising".

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