Coffeehouse Thread

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Microsoft outside the US

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  • User profile image
    Bas

    CKurt said:
    Bas said:
    *snip*

    Channel 9 interviews are more about talking about technology and architectures and code. Not so much about 'putting people on the spot'. It would have to be a carefull interview, and the questions would have to be given to this person at forhand.

     

    I mean it's more easy to interview people about the new product they are launching then interview them about a failure, without any good news to make you forget the failure. Look at the Rev9 interview, we bashed a lot about the current C9 but there was no video where a person accually admitted he made a mistake untill the Rev9 was released and they could say "We did a bad job at some points in v4 , but look now we have this and this in place to fix those problems"

     

    A C9 interview should not be like a conversation with your boss (altough client is king), it should not be a public confession of where you went wrong. That is for internal politics.

     

    Don't get me wrong, I would love to hear that person talk about the plans for Europe. But we need to make sure not to be like we are going head to head with this. Spark a conversation, tell us why it is so hard to get products launched in Europe. Tell us where you feel you could have done better.

    I don't know, I'm not talking about putting the thumbscrews on anyone, but if I'm going to develop for WP7, I'd want to know, as a developer, if that effort is going to be worth it or if I'm going to be coding for a platform that is not going to be worthwhile for a large part of the market.

     

    Also the part about not interviewing someone until they also have some good news to share means nothing to me. I thought this place wasn't about the marketing.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    wastingtimewithforums said:

    Well, at least Germany gets bombarded by MS ads.

     

    The German TV station "Kabel 1" has produced together with Microsoft tons of really bad Star Trek spoofs, featuring Internet Explorer 8:

     

    Witness the horror:

     

     

     

     

     

    There are much more...

     

    They get broadcasted together with Star Trek movies/shows.

     

    Not to forget the dreadful "7 seconds" ads:

     

     

    So, the next time you want more MS ads in your country, be careful what you wish for....

    I see your ads and raise you these:

     

     

     

     

     

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    Bas said:
    wastingtimewithforums said:
    *snip*

    I see your ads and raise you these:

     

     

     

     

     

    They are so stupid they made me laugh. Did those every air on National Television in The Netherlands? In Belgium I have seen none (might be to hard for them, we speak 2 languages here)

  • User profile image
    Bas

    CKurt said:
    Bas said:
    *snip*

    They are so stupid they made me laugh. Did those every air on National Television in The Netherlands? In Belgium I have seen none (might be to hard for them, we speak 2 languages here)

    Oh yeah, prime time and everything. For weeks. Smiley

     

    Wouldn't they just be able to make separate ones for VRT and RTBF?

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    Bas said:
    CKurt said:
    *snip*

    Oh yeah, prime time and everything. For weeks. Smiley

     

    Wouldn't they just be able to make separate ones for VRT and RTBF?

    Well they would of course Tongue Out I was being sarcastic about multiple languages, I'm sure they understand how Belgium works Wink

  • User profile image
    Bas

    CKurt said:
    Bas said:
    *snip*

    Well they would of course Tongue Out I was being sarcastic about multiple languages, I'm sure they understand how Belgium works Wink

    Ah, I see. My sarcasm detector shuts down when discussing something depressing. Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    aL_

    Bas said:
    aL_ said:
    *snip*

    Bing is another one of those things. In the US, bing is great. Over here, there's not even video search. No maps, no travel... I'm looking at it now and it's like looking at Altavista back in the nineties, except with image search. I realise the whole shopping etc. thing requires heavy localisation and deals with stores and such, which takes time, but if Media Center or Windows Speech Recognition are an example that'll simply never happen.

     

    I thought of another one: WP7. No localised version coming out here until well into next year. Also no app store. They talked about how maybe they're going to release the English version over here, but you wouldn't be able to buy anything on the app store because there won't be an app store. You might be able to download stuff from the US/English app store, but only if it's free. No paid apps. Not until an unspecified time in 2011. Which usually means a year after the general release date. What a way to push a new platform!

    sure but you know whats strange? bing maps actually works very well for sweden at least, they even have public transportation marked out on the maps, they even have birds eye and photosynths for stockholm and other major cities.

     

    you just cant get to it from the sweden bing site, you have to switch to U.S and then go to maps..

    that is just messed up..

     

    i can understand travel and shopping takes a little time, but i cant be convinced regular search cant be used right now from anywhere. infact its already available, but hidden from the vast majority of users. i just cant imagine what they are thinking

  • User profile image
    CKurt

    aL_ said:
    Bas said:
    *snip*

    sure but you know whats strange? bing maps actually works very well for sweden at least, they even have public transportation marked out on the maps, they even have birds eye and photosynths for stockholm and other major cities.

     

    you just cant get to it from the sweden bing site, you have to switch to U.S and then go to maps..

    that is just messed up..

     

    i can understand travel and shopping takes a little time, but i cant be convinced regular search cant be used right now from anywhere. infact its already available, but hidden from the vast majority of users. i just cant imagine what they are thinking

    you just cant get to it from the sweden bing site, you have to switch to U.S and then go to maps..

    that just messed up..

     

    That's the point. Why hide it? It's so stupid you have to say , to use the 'propper' Bing set it to United States. If you are looking for movie reviews/trailers and you are on the belgian site. You get a list of links (http://www.bing.com/search?q=The+Shawshank+Redemption&FORM=SSRE) and if you search from United States you get much more (http://www.bing.com/search?q=the+usual+suspects&form=QBLH&scope=web&qs=AS&sk=&pq=the+usual+s&sp=1&sc=8-11)

     

    What is the deal with that? It's the same movie! It's the same stuff we search for here. I know it's not a language used in belgium. But a lot of people who don't live in the US still use English search terms. Give them the right experience!

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    mdtauk said:
    CKurt said:
    *snip*

    I would not suggest pressuring anyone.  However I would like to get answers to all the questions.  And if for whatever reason they are not able to answer a specific question, could we at least know why they can not answer it.

     

    If we asked about the full Music selection being available in Europe, and they say "We cannot answer that at this moment".  I think its fair to ask why they can't answer.

     

    The rest of the world has barely heard of Zune, and that's a shame.  Kin was non-existent, and so far, Windows Phone 7 has no presence at all.  Bing gets new features, and it is not reported, or advertised.  There is no one single place in any European cities to go to for Microsoft related products or services.

     

    This is something Microsoft has to address, especially if the cloud is to ever be a success.

    But if they say "we can't answer that at the moment", it probably means "if we told you the exact reason, we'd p*ss off one or other of the suppliers and then the deal the lawyers have spent months working towards will go south rather quickly." Negotiations can often be very sensitive and talking about them openly doesn't necessarily help the process.

  • User profile image
    dentaku

    AndyC said:
    mdtauk said:
    *snip*

    But if they say "we can't answer that at the moment", it probably means "if we told you the exact reason, we'd p*ss off one or other of the suppliers and then the deal the lawyers have spent months working towards will go south rather quickly." Negotiations can often be very sensitive and talking about them openly doesn't necessarily help the process.

    Even in Canada it takes a very long time for stuff to leave the US and make it into our market. You rarely hear about other MS divisions in other countries other than MSR in England once in a while.

     

    It IS encouraging that WP7 will be released in Europe even before the US.

     

    BING maps is still ridiculously low on any useful imagery of Nova Scotia though. We have google street view images of our tiny village but there's nothing but low resolutions blobs on Bing maps.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    dentaku said:
    AndyC said:
    *snip*

    Even in Canada it takes a very long time for stuff to leave the US and make it into our market. You rarely hear about other MS divisions in other countries other than MSR in England once in a while.

     

    It IS encouraging that WP7 will be released in Europe even before the US.

     

    BING maps is still ridiculously low on any useful imagery of Nova Scotia though. We have google street view images of our tiny village but there's nothing but low resolutions blobs on Bing maps.

    It IS encouraging that WP7 will be released in Europe even before the US.

     

    I wonder if that has anything to do with Kin. Sort of in a "if it fails at least it won't be our second phone failure in that market."

  • User profile image
    Minh

    Bas said:
    dentaku said:
    *snip*

     

    I wonder if that has anything to do with Kin. Sort of in a "if it fails at least it won't be our second phone failure in that market."

    Like if MS would know if WP7 might fail in a month? Or if cancelling WP7 release in the US wouldn't be seen as a failure?

     

    I do think MS wants a month of roll-out experience before releasing it in the US though

  • User profile image
    Bas

    Minh said:
    Bas said:
    *snip*

    Like if MS would know if WP7 might fail in a month? Or if cancelling WP7 release in the US wouldn't be seen as a failure?

     

    I do think MS wants a month of roll-out experience before releasing it in the US though

    Like if MS would know if WP7 might fail in a month?

     

    Hey, it only took them 48 days to know last time.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    Bas said:
    Minh said:
    *snip*

     

    Hey, it only took them 48 days to know last time.

    Yeah, but MS didn't have the investment in the Kin (ignoring the $250 MM Danger acquicition) as they do with WP7.

     

     

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    dentaku said:
    AndyC said:
    *snip*

    Even in Canada it takes a very long time for stuff to leave the US and make it into our market. You rarely hear about other MS divisions in other countries other than MSR in England once in a while.

     

    It IS encouraging that WP7 will be released in Europe even before the US.

     

    BING maps is still ridiculously low on any useful imagery of Nova Scotia though. We have google street view images of our tiny village but there's nothing but low resolutions blobs on Bing maps.

    It IS encouraging that WP7 will be released in Europe even before the US.

    Not really. If the related web services aren't up to par. Take the Bing search for instance. When demoing, they get a hard-on showing off the local search results, that are mapped. I'm willing to bet that this part won't work. And other cloud functionality, which I can't think of yet.

  • User profile image
    davewill

    Economics is my guess.  A combination of risk/reward.  The US is a very stable market place over decades of time.  Europe hasn't been as stable, particularly in regards to free markets.  So there is additional risk.  Additional work plus additional risk better be met with additional returns or the business will hold off.  I'm not sure the European consumer would pay more than the US consumer.

     

    I would image if the cultural differences across the globe weren't as large it wouldn't be the way it is.  Left to Right versus Right to Left versus Top to Bottom.  For all I know there may even be a Bottom to Top language.  Commas versus Decimals.  Then there are always the language specific NO NO words and phrases.

     

    I'm just glad to see that we can have a conversation in this forum.  It hasn't been that many years ago that this thread wasn't even possible.

     

    The US is currently in the process of shooting itself in the foot when it comes to free market stability.  Patience grasshopper.  Microsoft might be knocking on your door any day now.

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    ZippyV said:

    2 other examples of neglected products in Europe: Bing and the online features of the Xbox 360.

    The first thing I did when seeing the DK Bing was to switch to the US version. The DK version is castrated. I don't think Bing should attempt to localize before they have something more than embarassing compared to the US version but luckily it's easy to switch settings.

     

    Appropos Bing. Did anyone notice how Google image search now mimics the Bing endless image scroller? It's very nice but both have some annoying mouse over logic associated with them. They're really taking a few pages out of Bing's book.

  • User profile image
    C7326487236​43

    ZippyV said:
    rhm said:
    *snip*

    That's because they don't have to translate them. I've never seen a Microsoft commercial in my life.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/msPartner#p/f/1/Y0RgeiBCCG0

     

    Well now you have.

     

    "This is the entry of the german band Blyndfold.

    We are from Dortmund, NRW, Germany; a 5 member combo playing progressive metal.
    If you want us to win the MS-Contest and see us perform live on the Partners Conference in Washington, DC, like this video! We also look forward to hear your feedback in the comments."

     

    If this doesn't want to make you be a Microsoft partner and peddle thier warez to your clients, I dunno what will!

     

    I'm booking my plane ticket to DC now to see da German eevy meetal ! (just kidding)

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