Coffeehouse Thread

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What would you do for MS?

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  • User profile image
    algorith

    spivonious said:

    I'd love to work there. Windows division or some game.

    Same here. I really like their games with managed code movement with XNA. OS programming is the next most interesting thing. 

  • User profile image
    Bass

    C732648723643 said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    I am not Beer.

     

    You need to earn 100k/year, and get back to us about your luxurious lifestyle. I'll love to hear about it.

    $100k is a f**king amazing salary, I don't know what planet you are from. It's easily double the national average. I hope to reach the magaical $100k mark one day, but I'm quite far from it.

     

    $100k a year is $8333 gross per month. Assuming a 35% tax (extremely conservative estimate) that's still $5416 net. Assuming $1500/mo for a 1 bedroom (I'm pretty sure Seattle-area COL is not even close to this), you are still left with over $4000 a month. That's more money that any individual like W3bbo would even know what to do with.

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    Bass said:
    C732648723643 said:
    *snip*

    $100k is a f**king amazing salary, I don't know what planet you are from. It's easily double the national average. I hope to reach the magaical $100k mark one day, but I'm quite far from it.

     

    $100k a year is $8333 gross per month. Assuming a 35% tax (extremely conservative estimate) that's still $5416 net. Assuming $1500/mo for a 1 bedroom (I'm pretty sure Seattle-area COL is not even close to this), you are still left with over $4000 a month. That's more money that any individual like W3bbo would even know what to do with.

    "I don't know what planet you are from"

     

    He's from Canada. Angel

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Bass said:
    C732648723643 said:
    *snip*

    $100k is a f**king amazing salary, I don't know what planet you are from. It's easily double the national average. I hope to reach the magaical $100k mark one day, but I'm quite far from it.

     

    $100k a year is $8333 gross per month. Assuming a 35% tax (extremely conservative estimate) that's still $5416 net. Assuming $1500/mo for a 1 bedroom (I'm pretty sure Seattle-area COL is not even close to this), you are still left with over $4000 a month. That's more money that any individual like W3bbo would even know what to do with.

    $4000 USD a month to play with after rent/mortgage, taxes, and bills?

     

    Hmmm.

     

    • $1000 into my Lamborghini fund (only $250,000 more to go...)
    • $1000 into whatever side business I'm working on (right now it's robotics)
    • $1000 into long-term savings/pension
    • $1000 discretionary/charity/"self", of that about $200 a month on food.

    I'm not the type who'd blow a salary like that, my mother often complains I spend my money too much, but that's because as soon as I started earning actually useful amounts of money (2006+) I had things I needed to buy straight away (2006: laptop, new PDA, phone, 2007: new monitors, 2008: new desktop for uni and everything that went along with that, etc).

     

    I think Americans, in general, have too much disposable income which leads to the material consumer society that's lost its soul.

  • User profile image
    Bass

    W3bbo said:
    Bass said:
    *snip*

    $4000 USD a month to play with after rent/mortgage, taxes, and bills?

     

    Hmmm.

     

    • $1000 into my Lamborghini fund (only $250,000 more to go...)
    • $1000 into whatever side business I'm working on (right now it's robotics)
    • $1000 into long-term savings/pension
    • $1000 discretionary/charity/"self", of that about $200 a month on food.

    I'm not the type who'd blow a salary like that, my mother often complains I spend my money too much, but that's because as soon as I started earning actually useful amounts of money (2006+) I had things I needed to buy straight away (2006: laptop, new PDA, phone, 2007: new monitors, 2008: new desktop for uni and everything that went along with that, etc).

     

    I think Americans, in general, have too much disposable income which leads to the material consumer society that's lost its soul.

    Well probably. I will being kind of conservative. Utilites (electric/water/electric/phone) run me about $200/month. It's unlikely you'll pay $1500/mo for rent. That's about what it costs in my area, but Seattle is much cheaper.

     

    Point is I highly doubt you'll feel financially unstable if you make $100k, pretty much anywhere in the USA. Unless you absolutely have to live in a 5 bedroom house or eat at Morton's Steakhouse for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

     

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Bass said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    Well probably. I will being kind of conservative. Utilites (electric/water/electric/phone) run me about $200/month. It's unlikely you'll pay $1500/mo for rent. That's about what it costs in my area, but Seattle is much cheaper.

     

    Point is I highly doubt you'll feel financially unstable if you make $100k, pretty much anywhere in the USA. Unless you absolutely have to live in a 5 bedroom house or eat at Morton's Steakhouse for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

     

    Actually, I was planning on buying a large hillside plot of land (overlooking Seattle) and build a relatively large house (not out of opulence, I just like having space around me) complete with hang-glider/microlight landing strip. The house would be built in to the hillside, like a Hobbit house, and have giant cubes jutting out of the hill as bedrooms (with 3 of the 4 sides being glass). I'd also want an expansive storage area underneath, I hate attics.

     

    I figured with a $100k/year salary from MSR, and plenty coming from my own software biz (assuming it takes off in the coming few years) then I'll be all set. Anyone fancy moonlighting as comission-based sales agents for me? Big Smile

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    W3bbo said:
    Bass said:
    *snip*

    Actually, I was planning on buying a large hillside plot of land (overlooking Seattle) and build a relatively large house (not out of opulence, I just like having space around me) complete with hang-glider/microlight landing strip. The house would be built in to the hillside, like a Hobbit house, and have giant cubes jutting out of the hill as bedrooms (with 3 of the 4 sides being glass). I'd also want an expansive storage area underneath, I hate attics.

     

    I figured with a $100k/year salary from MSR, and plenty coming from my own software biz (assuming it takes off in the coming few years) then I'll be all set. Anyone fancy moonlighting as comission-based sales agents for me? Big Smile

    Seriously?

     

    I'd start from an estabilished credit and I'd imagine a $1Mil for that kind of land you're talking about.

     

    Really guys, any of you live in the real world? $100K is in the top 2% *worldwide*, it can be a very comfortable life but it certainly doesn't leave room for weird stuff.

     

    For example, mortgage: ~$2,400; car: ~$750; cable/internet: $150; food: $600; phone: $70; utilities: $100; 401k: $600; etc etc etc... $5,200/month go away quite fast.

     

    On the other hand, Chris is still recovering from sinking his car. We must be kind.

     

    PS: Oh yeah, no moonlighting. Forget side businesses in the US.

  • User profile image
    C7326487236​43

    Bass said:
    C732648723643 said:
    *snip*

    $100k is a f**king amazing salary, I don't know what planet you are from. It's easily double the national average. I hope to reach the magaical $100k mark one day, but I'm quite far from it.

     

    $100k a year is $8333 gross per month. Assuming a 35% tax (extremely conservative estimate) that's still $5416 net. Assuming $1500/mo for a 1 bedroom (I'm pretty sure Seattle-area COL is not even close to this), you are still left with over $4000 a month. That's more money that any individual like W3bbo would even know what to do with.

    "I don't know what planet you are from."

    I'm from planet SOCAL where 90% of the traffic is newer model BMWs.

     

    "I hope to reach the magaical $100k mark one day, but I'm quite far from it."

     

    Shame may keep you from asking for a raise while shameless coders go with a better life. I am lucky. I can more or less shamelessly ask for things. Sometimes I get them, other times I don't. The exact way Bill Gates shamelessly doubled the licensing cost of Altair Basic to MITS in ~1976. You have to use extreme leveraging and be fearless.


    "$100k a year is $8333 gross per month. Assuming a 35% tax (extremely conservative estimate) that's still $5416 net."

     

    It's far lower once you get yourself a dependent. You also didn't factor in your killer super programmer all coverage medical/dental/vision insurance(employer typically pays $3-500 of it), your 401k contributions(typically matched by the employer at some level) which at your age should be no less than 18%, and other expenses.


    "Assuming $1500/mo for a 1 bedroom (I'm pretty sure Seattle-area COL is not even close to this), you are still left with over $4000 a month. That's more money that any individual like W3bbo would even know what to do with."

     

    That's assuming you don't have many services and live like a shut in, but OK.

     

    That's not that much when you subtract typical bills that you will have. You only have about $3000-3500 clear per month.

    If you invest 1/3 of your earnings in the stock market, as recommended by some personal financial schemes, kiss another $1500 goodbye.

    Then if you have personal projects on top of that, well...

     

    So yeah....

     

    If you just go to work and do nothing else, that's an OK salary. Most programmers capable of that salary around here are doing a lot more than just going to work in the day time to say the least.

  • User profile image
    C7326487236​43

    PaoloM said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    Seriously?

     

    I'd start from an estabilished credit and I'd imagine a $1Mil for that kind of land you're talking about.

     

    Really guys, any of you live in the real world? $100K is in the top 2% *worldwide*, it can be a very comfortable life but it certainly doesn't leave room for weird stuff.

     

    For example, mortgage: ~$2,400; car: ~$750; cable/internet: $150; food: $600; phone: $70; utilities: $100; 401k: $600; etc etc etc... $5,200/month go away quite fast.

     

    On the other hand, Chris is still recovering from sinking his car. We must be kind.

     

    PS: Oh yeah, no moonlighting. Forget side businesses in the US.

    "PS: Oh yeah, no moonlighting. Forget side businesses in the US."

     

    Bullsh*t. You tell them when you sign your employee contract or yearly handbook or whatever. No freedom, no codey.

    See how tough your employer really is. It's sad, but you either push, or you get pushed around. I have lots of 100k+ coder friends and none of them get pushed out of side work freedom. Most have the stones to push employers out of non-competes as well.

     

    It's all about opening cracks. Get an inch and take a mile. Treat everything like an exploit. Be a life hacker.

     

    No employer is going to give a sh*t about you past the keys you push on your keyboard. Treat it like that. Their only concern with your well being is that if you get hit by a bus, you won't be able to come back in the next morning(mid afternoon) and push the keyboard keys again to make them the big $$$. That's reality.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    ..if they need someone to run it - 691-grin

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    C732648723643 said:
    PaoloM said:
    *snip*

    "PS: Oh yeah, no moonlighting. Forget side businesses in the US."

     

    Bullsh*t. You tell them when you sign your employee contract or yearly handbook or whatever. No freedom, no codey.

    See how tough your employer really is. It's sad, but you either push, or you get pushed around. I have lots of 100k+ coder friends and none of them get pushed out of side work freedom. Most have the stones to push employers out of non-competes as well.

     

    It's all about opening cracks. Get an inch and take a mile. Treat everything like an exploit. Be a life hacker.

     

    No employer is going to give a sh*t about you past the keys you push on your keyboard. Treat it like that. Their only concern with your well being is that if you get hit by a bus, you won't be able to come back in the next morning(mid afternoon) and push the keyboard keys again to make them the big $$$. That's reality.

    MS is open, in fact there's a moonlighting policy which boils down to if there's no COI and it's not on work time, feel free.

  • User profile image
    C7326487236​43

    blowdart said:
    C732648723643 said:
    *snip*

    MS is open, in fact there's a moonlighting policy which boils down to if there's no COI and it's not on work time, feel free.

    I am more than positive that MS employees have to hide their outside activities to an extent to avoid internal investigations even with a moonlighting policy depending on what team they are on. Elsewhere it's different.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    C732648723643 said:
    blowdart said:
    *snip*

    I am more than positive that MS employees have to hide their outside activities to an extent to avoid internal investigations even with a moonlighting policy depending on what team they are on. Elsewhere it's different.

    I did check the moonlighting policy before I joined - I'm pretty much free to do anything I had wanted to do, be it write another book, contribute to open source (as long as it's not GPLed obviously, risks of contamination being what it is)

  • User profile image
    C7326487236​43

    blowdart said:
    C732648723643 said:
    *snip*

    I did check the moonlighting policy before I joined - I'm pretty much free to do anything I had wanted to do, be it write another book, contribute to open source (as long as it's not GPLed obviously, risks of contamination being what it is)

    "contribute to open source (as long as it's not GPLed obviously, risks of contamination being what it is)"

     

    That statement is retarded.

    Also, if you so much as started to get real revenue or investment from a research project you did on your own or with friends, or worse friends at work, you would probably be on the receiving end of an investigation from the MS legal team. Would they come up and tell you that you are being investigated? No, they would not.

     

    That's what you have to deal with. Lay in your bed.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    C732648723643 said:
    blowdart said:
    *snip*

    "contribute to open source (as long as it's not GPLed obviously, risks of contamination being what it is)"

     

    That statement is retarded.

    Also, if you so much as started to get real revenue or investment from a research project you did on your own or with friends, or worse friends at work, you would probably be on the receiving end of an investigation from the MS legal team. Would they come up and tell you that you are being investigated? No, they would not.

     

    That's what you have to deal with. Lay in your bed.

    Ah beer, trying to have a sensible conversation with you is just a lost cause isn't it?

  • User profile image
    Steve411

    I would go work for MS any day. I run a Computer Repair business and that is going good, too. There is a high demand for that here in WA and the profit is just unbelievable. I have been trying to get a Software Engineer position at a good firm and finally have my chance at Triple E technologies in Post Falls, ID (http://www.e3tek.com/).

     

    I get to meet the team and check it all out on Tuesday, my second "interview".

     

    I am so excited and pumped for this!

     

  • User profile image
    C7326487236​43

    blowdart said:
    C732648723643 said:
    *snip*

    Ah beer, trying to have a sensible conversation with you is just a lost cause isn't it?

    I'm not Beer.

  • User profile image
    dahat

    PaoloM said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    Seriously?

     

    I'd start from an estabilished credit and I'd imagine a $1Mil for that kind of land you're talking about.

     

    Really guys, any of you live in the real world? $100K is in the top 2% *worldwide*, it can be a very comfortable life but it certainly doesn't leave room for weird stuff.

     

    For example, mortgage: ~$2,400; car: ~$750; cable/internet: $150; food: $600; phone: $70; utilities: $100; 401k: $600; etc etc etc... $5,200/month go away quite fast.

     

    On the other hand, Chris is still recovering from sinking his car. We must be kind.

     

    PS: Oh yeah, no moonlighting. Forget side businesses in the US.

    PS: Oh yeah, no moonlighting. Forget side businesses in the US.

    Even if we ignore the whole contractual reasons you may not be able to do such a thing... lord knows one doesn't exactly have much time/energy left for such things... but that's ok, I love what I do and put in the time & energy I do exactly because of that love.

    I figured with a $100k/year salary from MSR

    You keep assuming that that number is accurate and immediate. I hate to burst your bubble, but you keep assuming that IF you could get such a job (many apply, few are interviewed, even fewer are highbred) that you would get such a salary on day one.

     

    Hell, a buddy of mine (with a PHD) just started last month in a research role in the hardware group and doesn't make 100k, in fact he only makes a couple bucks more than me.

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