Coffeehouse Thread

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Microsoft Flight - who are they kidding?

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  • User profile image
    androidi

    Are they rebranding Flight Sim to Flight and trying to make it appeal more to less hardcore audience? If so MS are way out of touch with the time. That's what people wanted 5 to 10 years ago. (not that tower chatter simulation and other boring stuff - that stuff is dying and being replaced with modern fully automatic traffic control)

     

    Today what people casually interested in flying want is a cheap thing *that actually flies* and has a live video feed. For $50* I estimate it's possible to build a plane with 10 KM range and live feed that's fed through open 2.4 Ghz stations and/or 3G mobile network. For short ranges it should also have a direct realtime control like traditional RC except with pad/keyboard but beyond that range it would be waypoint controlled from tablet/laptop with return to home based on left battery life.

     

    edit: Removed platform speculation since it's confirmed PC game.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    It says it's "Live-enabled" but that could mean anything: does it only allow play when connected to the Internet? Or does it mean that it uses the Live matchmaking service instead of Zone.com (oooh, nostalgia rush there!)

     

    Just because the name isn't as dry as it used to doesn't necessarily mean they've dumbed it down The market for a realistic simulator is probably larger than the people who just want to fly planes in their computer for kicks (and besides, that lot are easily satisifed with semi-realistic air combat simulators) so this will be an interesting development.

     

    I wonder what will happen to Train Simulator, and if Microsoft might consider buying the best simulation game of all time: Forklift Simulator

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    Are you talking about RC airplanes? Because those exist, are very expensive, pretty difficult to fly, and heavily regulated where they're allowed to fly and what frequencies they can use.

  • User profile image
    rhm

    W3bbo said:

    It says it's "Live-enabled" but that could mean anything: does it only allow play when connected to the Internet? Or does it mean that it uses the Live matchmaking service instead of Zone.com (oooh, nostalgia rush there!)

     

    Just because the name isn't as dry as it used to doesn't necessarily mean they've dumbed it down The market for a realistic simulator is probably larger than the people who just want to fly planes in their computer for kicks (and besides, that lot are easily satisifed with semi-realistic air combat simulators) so this will be an interesting development.

     

    I wonder what will happen to Train Simulator, and if Microsoft might consider buying the best simulation game of all time: Forklift Simulator

    I agree that there is a large and dedicated market for the old Flight Simulator line. My fear though is that this 'reboot' won't be compatible and will try to appeal to the FPS crowd and will please noone. There is no detailed information available at all atm though, so it's just a fear. I wonder how many of the Flight sim crowd have moved to X-Plane already.

     

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    rhm said:
    W3bbo said:
    *snip*

    I agree that there is a large and dedicated market for the old Flight Simulator line. My fear though is that this 'reboot' won't be compatible and will try to appeal to the FPS crowd and will please noone. There is no detailed information available at all atm though, so it's just a fear. I wonder how many of the Flight sim crowd have moved to X-Plane already.

     

    As someone who's part of the Flight Sim crowd I can say: almost no one. Heck, a good percentage of the hard core crowd (particularly those who fly "heavy metal" (big jets)) are still on FS2004.

     

    I can tell you why in exactly three words: third party add-ons.

  • User profile image
    giovanni

    Sven Groot said:

    Are you talking about RC airplanes? Because those exist, are very expensive, pretty difficult to fly, and heavily regulated where they're allowed to fly and what frequencies they can use.

    I remember looking into real RC planes when I was a kid and that was very expensive and complicated. Nowdays I fly a real paraglider once or twice a week: it is not very complicated and it feels thousands of times better than any first person game or any live video feed (just make sure you get proper training before you do fly on your own)!

     

    I think that if I did not have the opportunity to fly something real myself I would rather try a simulator over a remote controlled model.

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    I'm hoping "Live enabled" means that you'll be playing the Flight Simulator of old but with millions of other users in the world. Those AI-controlled planes at Meigs Field were never very smart.

     

    I have fond childhood memories of playing Flight Simulator 95, and flying from Chicago to Philadelphia.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    spivonious said:

    I'm hoping "Live enabled" means that you'll be playing the Flight Simulator of old but with millions of other users in the world. Those AI-controlled planes at Meigs Field were never very smart.

     

    I have fond childhood memories of playing Flight Simulator 95, and flying from Chicago to Philadelphia.

    I'm hoping "Live enabled" means that you'll be playing the Flight Simulator of old but with millions of other users in the world. Those AI-controlled planes at Meigs Field were never very smart.

    This is essentially what VATSIM provides, except replace millions with hundreds (thousands on a good day). You get real people flying other aircraft, and real people providing ATC. Better still, becoming a controller on VATSIM requires passing exams so competency is guaranteed (though similar requirements are not placed on pilots, so you do occasionally come across complete idiots there). Strict adherence to real-world procedures (as far as possible, anyway) is required. If you prefer things to be a bit looser (and less realistic), you can try IVAO instead (both IVAO and VATSIM split off from the old SATCO network after disagreements about how closely realism should be adhered to). Big Smile

     

    VATSIM can be great fun, regardless of whether you prefer to fly VFR in a single engine prop or like to jet around the world in an Airbus A380, Boeing 747, or even Concorde. Especially fun are the big events, which get a huge number of pilots together in an area which, for the duration of the event, typically has guaranteed full ATC coverage. The biggest such event is Cross the Pond, organised twice a year, which sees a few hundred planes cross the Atlantic in the space of a few hours. This also includes such things as oceanic clearance and non-radar procedures which you don't often get to deal with otherwise.

     

    Considering what the average FSX multiplayer sessions is like (where most people don't show any regard for procedures or even common sense, controllers and pilots alike), I'd shudder to think what a world-wide Games for Windows Live network populated by Leroy Jenkins types would be like to fly in. It'd be complete anarchy. Crying

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    I assumed the re-branding means they're changing the focus. Instead of being a hardcore but realistic Flight Simulation game, it will have that, but it will also contain things like fighter planes, rescue missions with a helicopter, and other exciting aircraft based fun. I might be wrong but part of me hopes they DO do this. They already started in that direction with the latest Flight Sim' but couldn't go really seriously in that direction due to the game's focus and audience.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    ManipUni said:

    I assumed the re-branding means they're changing the focus. Instead of being a hardcore but realistic Flight Simulation game, it will have that, but it will also contain things like fighter planes, rescue missions with a helicopter, and other exciting aircraft based fun. I might be wrong but part of me hopes they DO do this. They already started in that direction with the latest Flight Sim' but couldn't go really seriously in that direction due to the game's focus and audience.

    I hope that as well. Some of the missions in FSX were pretty fun (although I never could get the hang of flour bombing due to the lack of actual depth perception). As long as they keep the realistic simulation element and extensibility I don't see why they shouldn't have some more fun elements to attract a bigger crowd.

     

    I also hope they revise some of the flight lessons. While they're useful for starters, some of the more advanced lessons are downright wrong in some respects, and whoever designed the nigh-impossible gauntlet that is the instrument rating checkride should be shot. I've managed to do nearly the entire checkride, which took an incredible amount of patience, dozens of attempts, and consulting the actual script file that defines the checkride to see what it actually expected you to do. But still I never passed. It always failed me at the end because I didn't do the procedure turn for the approach correctly, even though I did.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    Today what people casually interested in flying want is a cheap thing *that actually flies* and has a live video feed.

     

    Or is that just what you want?

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    One thing for sure, terrorist has to use the old FS to train their 911 pilots. Angel Sure it is cool to teach none-professional to fly a airplane, but, I guess it is not worth developement.

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    rhm

    ManipUni said:

    I assumed the re-branding means they're changing the focus. Instead of being a hardcore but realistic Flight Simulation game, it will have that, but it will also contain things like fighter planes, rescue missions with a helicopter, and other exciting aircraft based fun. I might be wrong but part of me hopes they DO do this. They already started in that direction with the latest Flight Sim' but couldn't go really seriously in that direction due to the game's focus and audience.

    I'm thinking they'll turn it into a game like Dogfighter instead. Doesn't that look like fun? Smiley

  • User profile image
    LarryLarsen

    FWIW: I'm a huge Flight Sim fan with 3 x 42" 1080p displays and a full Saitek control setup on my desk at home. So I'm following this very closely. I reached out to the team behind this yesterday. I wouldn't assume what they are going to do, but when they are ready to pull the curtain back and talk a little more about this, Channel 9 will be there.

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    LarryLarsen said:

    FWIW: I'm a huge Flight Sim fan with 3 x 42" 1080p displays and a full Saitek control setup on my desk at home. So I'm following this very closely. I reached out to the team behind this yesterday. I wouldn't assume what they are going to do, but when they are ready to pull the curtain back and talk a little more about this, Channel 9 will be there.

    The last flight simulator I tried was F-29 Retalliator, that's a couple of days ago. I never tried Flight Simulator but was in a state of monumental disappointment about decision to shut down work on the product and fire all developers because seeing some of the latest beautiful photo-realistic screenshots made me want to try it and it appeared to be the best game of its kind. I really hope this new effort is not an attempt at a dumbed down Flight Simulator but an honest attempt at continuing the series, albeit under a new name.

     

    Speaking of simulation. Take a look at this Brian Beckman video about real-time simulation of tire-physics, in the context of Forza (Forrrrza). It's a great video.

     

  • User profile image
    dahat

    rhm said:
    ManipUni said:
    *snip*

    I'm thinking they'll turn it into a game like Dogfighter instead. Doesn't that look like fun? Smiley

    Looks a lot like Snoopy Flying Ace.

     

    For some reason I could never get into Flight Sim... instead I was always rather fond of X-Plane as with only a minor couple of tweaks enables you to fly on mars.

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    dahat said:
    rhm said:
    *snip*

    Looks a lot like Snoopy Flying Ace.

     

    For some reason I could never get into Flight Sim... instead I was always rather fond of X-Plane as with only a minor couple of tweaks enables you to fly on mars.

    Not a very exciting landscape though, is it? Quite devoid of detail.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    exoteric said:
    dahat said:
    *snip*

    Not a very exciting landscape though, is it? Quite devoid of detail.

    The X-Plane Mars thing is 10 years old, so that's actually pretty amazing.

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