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Oracle vs Google: The saga continues

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  • User profile image
    Bass

    http://infoworld.com/d/the-industry-standard/google-backs-out-javaone-conference-591

     

    Google backs out of the popular JavaOne conference, after being a major participant for six years.


    Google's pulling out of JavaOne indicates it and Oracle are not making much progress in their dispute, said IDC analyst Al Hilwa. He cited a possibility of fragmentation for Java: "It signals more serious rifts and risks for fragmenting Java. I wouldn't be surprised to see Google rebrand the Java-like language it uses for Android and stop trying to make it conform to Java at some point."

     

    Notice the deja-vu? Isn't that exactly what Microsoft did 10 years ago?

     

    Meanwhile, I think Redmond is the real winner here. They are probably enjoying seeing two of their most bitter competitors duke it out, but they aren't doing it from the sidelines. They even went as far to say that they wouldn't sue if .NET somehow appeared on Android. Is that a hint to Google, or perhaps a way to look more open then Java?

     

    Regardless, if Google does decide to switch to .NET (IMO, highly unlikely), or roll their own framework, the real loser will be Java, and maybe even Oracle.

     

    I really think Oracle has no leverge here: Java isn't the "compelling" feature of Android. It's quite obvious to me at least that if Google would have known Oracle would throw a fit about Android, they'd simply avoid using Java in the first place - and Android would have been as successful (or even more successful) without it. They even have their own JITing VM and core libraries. Language design isn't outside of Google's expertise, they count the designers of C and Python as employees ffs.

     

    So good luck with the injunction Oracle.

  • User profile image
    rhm

    Oracle might be spinning this as about the fragmentation of Java in order to gain sympathy from Java developers, but really it's about Google (and other Android phone manufacturers) not paying licence fees for Java. Even if Andoid implemented the exact J2ME spec but did so using the Dalvik VM and not paying a fee to Sun/Oracle, they would still be getting sued.

  • User profile image
    rhm

    Welcome back Beer Smiley

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    rhm said:

    Welcome back Beer Smiley

    *chortle*

  • User profile image
    Bass

    rhm said:

    Oracle might be spinning this as about the fragmentation of Java in order to gain sympathy from Java developers, but really it's about Google (and other Android phone manufacturers) not paying licence fees for Java. Even if Andoid implemented the exact J2ME spec but did so using the Dalvik VM and not paying a fee to Sun/Oracle, they would still be getting sued.

    Google made the VM and most of the Android libraries all by themselves. I don't think Microsoft pays license fees for J#, do they?

     

    I really doubt Google will adopt .NET, but they can learn from it's history. Really all Google needs to do is fix all of Java's annoying quicks add some interesting features to the language and call it some catchy name that can't be confused with "Java".  Android will be better for it anyway.

  • User profile image
    joechung

    Bass said:
    rhm said:
    *snip*

    Google made the VM and most of the Android libraries all by themselves. I don't think Microsoft pays license fees for J#, do they?

     

    I really doubt Google will adopt .NET, but they can learn from it's history. Really all Google needs to do is fix all of Java's annoying quicks add some interesting features to the language and call it some catchy name that can't be confused with "Java".  Android will be better for it anyway.

    The names C# and J# are already taken.

     

    This really is the Microsoft-Sun debacle all over again, isn't it?

  • User profile image
    Bass

    joechung said:
    Bass said:
    *snip*

    The names C# and J# are already taken.

     

    This really is the Microsoft-Sun debacle all over again, isn't it?

    How about G#? Smiley

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    Nice! An image button that plays "miau" when you press it! Hello world, prepare to be taken over! Big Smile

  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    Bass said:
    joechung said:
    *snip*

    How about G#? Smiley

    G# could be for either Google# or Go#. From what I've seen so far, Go has failed to achieve critical mass. Perhaps the sharp moniker could give it the kick in the pants it needs, then again, maybe not.

     

    -Josh

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    Bass said:
    rhm said:
    *snip*

    Google made the VM and most of the Android libraries all by themselves. I don't think Microsoft pays license fees for J#, do they?

     

    I really doubt Google will adopt .NET, but they can learn from it's history. Really all Google needs to do is fix all of Java's annoying quicks add some interesting features to the language and call it some catchy name that can't be confused with "Java".  Android will be better for it anyway.

    When they lost the case Microsoft handed over a big pot of money and both companies signed an all-encompassing cross-licensing agreement. So yes, Microsoft has already coughed up the fees.

     

    The thing is, Ellison is not stupid. He has weighed up the pros and cons of this lawsuit and probably knows one or two things that folk who live in the internet echo chamber don't.

     

    1. In real terms, the percentage of Java developers who know or even care about this lawsuit is nowhere near double figures. The vast majority of Java bods work for large companies writing server side code. When I chatted to a few of them about the lawsuit, their first reactions was 'Whoa! Whoa! You mean Oracle bought Sun??' This has no bearing on the server where Java is still used heavily by the companies that can afford to run it. 
    2. For all the posturing, I have yet to see one Java open source project canned because of the move. Google released an update to its GWT library only last week.
    3. Ellison also knows how Google works. They will make a big noise about freedom and then they will do whatever is best for their bottom line, just like any other company and just like they did in China.
    4. Sun botched Java on the desktop and the mobile long before Oracle got hold of it. Really, they don't have that much to lose because they had nothing to start with. 

    This is what Ellison sees. Still remains to be seen if he's right.

     

  • User profile image
    rhm

    <Yawn>

     

    You know what the sad thing is? I'm not even going to call you a troll this time because I think you're so mental at this point, you actually believe all this rubbish. You're like the tech Glenn Beck - except you don't have any followers. Smiley

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    This is like watching five minutes of Pinkie and the Brain.

     

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    I'm sorry, I really thought that miau was going to take over hello. Sad

    Miau world is no more. LOLcat is sad.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    Ray7 said:

    This is like watching five minutes of Pinkie and the Brain.

     

    What? No! I like Pinky and the Brain! Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    Look Chris, we keep you around just because any village needs their idiot.

     

    But don't overdo it, ok? Once you go full retard, you don't come back.

  • User profile image
    rjdohnert

    PaoloM said:

    Look Chris, we keep you around just because any village needs their idiot.

     

    But don't overdo it, ok? Once you go full retard, you don't come back.

    Good to see he is still around tho.  As for Oracle vs Google,  I dont know how the hell its going to end.  Its interesting nonetheless.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    It is amazing that most devs think Java is free. But, then again, I never know how Sun / Oracle operates. But, I am woundering how those Java devs reacts when they see the potential law suits from Oracle.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    Ray7

    Sven Groot said:
    Ray7 said:
    *snip*

    What? No! I like Pinky and the Brain! Tongue Out

    'What are we going to do tonight, Chris?'

    'Same thing we do every night, Rich; we're going to take over the WORLD!'

     

     

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