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What's the dual of the universe?

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  • User profile image
    Charles

    Thanks to the great Erik Meijer, especially, and Brian Beckman, we have learned a great deal about duality here on Channel 9. What's the dual of a universe, which can be defined as an infinite collection of matter and energy derived from a single source?


    C

  • User profile image
    jamie

    dual ... as in:  SteveB and BillG were dual.  

     

    Without a "duel"  = minus possibility of Dynamic ( as in duo)

     

    therefore there can be no batman and robin solution.

     

    (yay!)

     

     

    ....

     

    huh?

     

     

    *did c9 go offline for a min there?  weird stuff happened

  • User profile image
    elmer

    Is the singularity theory still being promoted as "the" solution ?

     

    Not that I’m even a cosmologist’s fart, but as I understand it, there is a serious problem with the observation of a universe that is expanding at an accelerating rate, and dialling that back to a starting point... because the exponential observation requires going back infinitely in time... or something along those lines ??

  • User profile image
    Charles

    jamie said:

    dual ... as in:  SteveB and BillG were dual.  

     

    Without a "duel"  = minus possibility of Dynamic ( as in duo)

     

    therefore there can be no batman and robin solution.

     

    (yay!)

     

     

    ....

     

    huh?

     

     

    *did c9 go offline for a min there?  weird stuff happened

    Jamie, you are a hero. Smiley
    C

  • User profile image
    Charles

    elmer said:

    Is the singularity theory still being promoted as "the" solution ?

     

    Not that I’m even a cosmologist’s fart, but as I understand it, there is a serious problem with the observation of a universe that is expanding at an accelerating rate, and dialling that back to a starting point... because the exponential observation requires going back infinitely in time... or something along those lines ??

    I don't know, my friend. That's why I asked. Smiley
    C

  • User profile image
    Blue Ink

    Charles said:
    elmer said:
    *snip*

    I don't know, my friend. That's why I asked. Smiley
    C

    Well, the dual of the Observable Universe should be the Enumerable Universe... whatever that means Smiley

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    Blue Ink said:
    Charles said:
    *snip*

    Well, the dual of the Observable Universe should be the Enumerable Universe... whatever that means Smiley

    +10 for relatively obscure pun.

     

    Herbie

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    The dual of the Universe is... The Void.

     

    I should get the Kindle edition of that tomorrow. I still need to finish re-reading the second book of the trilogy, though. I'm sure Hamilton will have delivered another excellent book; he's fast becoming my favourite sci-fi author. Smiley

  • User profile image
    davewill

    There is no dual to the Universe.

     

    The Universe is more than just an infinite collection of matter and energy derived from a single source.

     

    The Universe is everything that exists.

     

    If someone were to find a dual to the Universe then it would be something that now exists and therefore would become a part of the Universe.

     

    Therefore there is no dual to the Universe.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    davewill said:

    There is no dual to the Universe.

     

    The Universe is more than just an infinite collection of matter and energy derived from a single source.

     

    The Universe is everything that exists.

     

    If someone were to find a dual to the Universe then it would be something that now exists and therefore would become a part of the Universe.

     

    Therefore there is no dual to the Universe.

    You are discounting the possibility of a multiverse.

  • User profile image
    davewill

    Sven Groot said:
    davewill said:
    *snip*

    You are discounting the possibility of a multiverse.

    Multiverse and Universe are a contentious tandem.  The very nature of another Universe only expands the existence of the current Universe.

     

    However, since I'm taking Sven's red pill  Smiley

     

    In order for Multiverse and Universe to coexist, a Universe can only exist at a given point in time.  Time must be used to make what is infinite, the Universe, finite.  Thereby allowing for the existence of another Universe but on a different axis of time.  Time exists on an infinite number of axis.  Only one Universe can exist on any one axis of time.

     

    The dual would be were all the axis meet.  Nowhere.  {i need more red pills to fill this logic link in} Thus there is no dual to the Universe.

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    So the universe is now proven infinite? Endless in time perhaps but endless in space?

     

     

    The dual of everything created out of nothing? An ultra-large black hole so massive that that it finally sucks in an entire universe, thus creating nothing out of everything? The dual of a universe creating that? No idea.

     

    I like the imaginative ideas behind Membrane Theory, that the big bang could really be an event of colliding membranes.

  • User profile image
    Ion Todirel

    Not sure I got the dual thing right, but.... black hole?

  • User profile image
    jamie

    hawking: there is no god - the universe created itself:

    http://news.scotsman.com/news/Hawking-There39s-no-God-behind.6510723.jp

     

    im all for science.

    im all for hawking.

    im even for bill mahers religulous

     

    but ill say this - of COURSE the universe created itself.

     

    but - when it did so - did it also create an intelegent ...being/mass/god to control all the energy?

     

    * ive seen more "fate" in the last 3 weeks ....than you want to see...  made me re-ask ... maybe athiesim isnt for me....

     

    (pre-answer)  like - when we sold first time - we had to go to Staples (across from new house) - the real estate office - we needed to deliver Survey to - was same office and location - that we bought the house at 11 years ago... - that deal fell through - we pushed on - lowerd price - then got a real LOWBALL offer - met in middle - down 40 ... sold - new offer - house still avail - offered 20 less = all worked out - plus - it rained today and apparently there was a rainbow over our new house (according to best friend who lives near it)

     

    if stuff like that doesnt make you question science ...soley science... i dont know what would

     

    ps - ya its all hocus pocus... but when youre in a situation...  you start to think otherwise

  • User profile image
    staceyw

    If "time is an illusion that has a purpose" like Edgar Casey said, then it would seem we need to figure out what that purpose is by disecting it and playing with it to understand all components of it - which is also why we can't figure it out (yet).  Naturally, it may just be:

     

    var dual = Observable.Empty<Universe>(); 

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    Blue Ink said:
    Charles said:
    *snip*

    Well, the dual of the Observable Universe should be the Enumerable Universe... whatever that means Smiley

    True!

     

    ObservableUniverse = IObservable<Particle> :: (Particle -> ()) -> ()

    EnumerableUniverse = IEnumerable<Particle> :: () -> (() -> Particle)

     

    Let's line up the types:

     

    (Particle -> ()) -> ()   <=>   () <- (() <- Particle)

     

    An enumerable universe sounds like a black hole, pulling in particles from one universe, tunnelling them through a wormhole and tossing them out the other side, into another universe.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    exoteric said:
    Blue Ink said:
    *snip*

    True!

     

    ObservableUniverse = IObservable<Particle> :: (Particle -> ()) -> ()

    EnumerableUniverse = IEnumerable<Particle> :: () -> (() -> Particle)

     

    Let's line up the types:

     

    (Particle -> ()) -> ()   <=>   () <- (() <- Particle)

     

    An enumerable universe sounds like a black hole, pulling in particles from one universe, tunnelling them through a wormhole and tossing them out the other side, into another universe.

    Matter is an essential constituent, but entropy is even more fundamental. Since energy is at the heart of our observable universe, I would postulate that the dual of the universe is the dual of energy i.e.

     

    Energy is something that cannot be created or destroyed, the dual being something that can be created and destroyed.

  • User profile image
    jamie

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