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- My Stuff appears to have replaced the dreadful to type Document and settings ( hooray!)
- the liquid mercury style buttons etc are interesting.. but i actually liked slate better ( last build - not so bright)
- NICE RECYCLE ICON! haha
Ill go over it more thoroughly later.. but wanted to get the thread going anyhowz
PS: see? why cant i go download this right now??
Eric Rudder - go man go!
very nice....should be exciting
QUick question: How is Winbeta.org related to Microsoft? Any affiliation?
hmmm some great ideas, not so down with the parental control settings, but oh well that does seem to be going with the times, when will MS be co-operating with wal-mart on their autocensoring dvd play (yuck). I love the game auto patcher, i do home the game companies put something together.
Lars, theyre not at all, theyre just another psuedo "news roundup" sites that warez kiddies hang around in.
re:"theyre just another psuedo "news roundup" sites that warez kiddies hang around in."
Lars - they are a cottage industry (neowin, bink, winbeta, winnews, etc) to make it easiser for developers to get microsoft news and or betas - without going through the sterile and lawyer written microsoft.com
re: Parental Controls..
-they charge for this in msn premium - does this mean they will be littering the OS with features - that you cant use unless you pay a subscription?
for 300 dollars - it had better come with everything i need - and not nag me to pay more
they tried the sub based model in oz with office i think, but they decided against it.
Wow. I'm really glad that I got to see this in its pre-alpha (?) state. First, let me say that this is the first I've seen of Longhorn. So, I've a few comments...
1) PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me that god-awful desktop-space-mongering evil * of a bar on the right hand side is removable. I absolutely cannot stand the idea of something as stagnant as that appears to be being omnipresent and HUGE. Every time I see that thing I cringe. Maximized applications don't seem to sit on top of it, although some apps appear to be able to-- inconsistant?
2) Make the "Close" X button on windows red again. At first, I hated it when I saw it on XP, but I quickly realized that it adds significant cultural meaning (i.e., warning!). I think my wife, a non-computer-savy person, benefits from that as well. This may be a standard customization option, but it should default to red, or whatever the localized version might be.
3) Windows Explorer is taking up 151MB?!? OK, seriously, this needs fixing. I don't care that this is a pre-alpha release, but Explorer is a resource hog. There has GOT to be some kind of compartmentalization that can be done to reduce its footprint. On the machine these screenshots were taken, that's nearly 30% of physical memory. Just for explorer.
4) Out of curiosity, why are SYSTEM processes showing in the Process Manager if "Show processes from all users" isn't checked?
5) Search is looking a little awkward. Probably all the empty space. Aside: maybe it's just my computer (XP Pro), but when I select "Search" from a folder in Explorer, the "Look in" field is blank. It should be filled in with the folder I selected "Search" from, right? Please make sure that's working in Longhorn. Minor inconvienence, major gripe.
6) "My stuff"? Is this renamable? I hate all this "my" garbage, it's a little too cutesy. Personal gripe, I know.
7) I like the built-in parental controls for games, especially that it recognizes several rating systems. Really really really cool.
8) The game patching feature is pretty cool too. How does that work? Does Microsoft awknowledge a central update repository somewhere, or can games register where their own updates might be?
9) Download manager-- please tell me that normal users won't be able to adjust the Priority of apps they've just downloaded. At least "real-time" isn't an option.
10) Internet Explorer. Here we revert back to the first complaint... SO MUCH WASTED SPACE. What the hell is up with that gigantic titlebar area? That's just freaking UGLY. Where's the "forward" button? And why isn't "back" grouped with related functions such as stop and reload? What the hell is that star? Is that red X next to the address bar a stop button, and if so, why is there another one below the menu? Why isn't the webpage name in the upper part of the title bar, and why isn't there a system context menu (don't know if that's the right name-- the one in the upper-left, with minimize, maximize, etc.). If there isn't one, at least tell me that Alt-space-n will still minimizes the window (i.e, you haven't killed those standard shortcuts). I'll trust that the application menu and toolbars will be graphically spruced up a bit?
11) Is it just me, or does the Windows Mesenger guy look like StrongSad, from Homestar Runner? Not that that's relevant just to Longhorn...
12) Regarding "My computer", "My music", "My contacts", etc., the complaint it twofold and twice repeated. First, please let me rename or meaningfully change the "My X" nomecleature. Second, AGAIN WITH THE COPEOUS WASTING OF SPACE. Please. Some of us will be living with "small" (i.e., 17") monitors, nevermind the good laptop folk who will be seeing 14" for some time to come.
13) I like the new view-selector. Very intuitive. I hope that you have the option to use it both via click-n-drag AND individual clicks (i.e., pop-up and stay context menuing)?
14) Not related to the screenshots, but what's this garbage I hear about the "average" Longhorn computer needing dual-4GHz processors, 1G RAM, 1T HD storage, and TWO net connections?!? I mean, I know its two years off at least, but that's fucking suicide! I plan on keeping my ~9 month old computer around for at least another 3 years, and it doesn't have ONE EIGHTH THE POWER. Seriously, Microsoft is either going to loose a lot of customers, or our landfills are going to have a lot of discarded desktops. And again, think of the laptop users!!
14) well yes it is garbage, if you believe it i have a bridge for sale here.
jamie wrote:-they charge for this in msn premium - does this mean they will be littering the OS with features - that you cant use unless you pay a subscription?
The incremental on demand download and deployment scenario could result in subscription based add-ons.
Or third party applications that are subscription based. Or why not a combination of adware and subscription. I guess Real Media would like that.
I hope it won't happen tho. I get annoyed just by the ads in MSN Messenger.
Btw; what is the ugly giant star next to the magnifying glass good for?
Chris Sells says the following. (My comment: the lack of Visual Studio bits is not exciting.)
In case you've heard the rumors about a new drop of Longhorn coming to WinHEC attendees, you've heard right. The Milestone 7.2 (M7.2) drop of Longhorn will be given to WinHEC attendees this week and will be available to MSDN Subscribers for download RSN*. The plan is to provide regular LH Milestone drops to the community as we have them, regardless of whether they really provide more functionality/stability or not. That way, we keep you guys in synch with what we're doing and you can give us more relevant feedback.
In M7.2, the big deal is the addition of 3D support in Avalon, including declarative support in XAML. There are better things coming in 3D (as there are in the whole of Longhorn), but this is the initial set of functionality and we'd love to know what you think.
To set your expectations properly, WinHEC attendees and MSDN Subscribers will have access to the M7.2 OS and SDK bits, but will not have access to any matching Visual Studio bits. Neither the PDC Visual Studio installation nor the latest Visual Studio 2005 community drop nor even the upcoming Visual Studio 2005 beta will install or run properly on M7.2 Longhorn. We're hoping for future LH Milestone drops to include the matching Visual Studio bits, but this one doesn't. Luckily, MSBuild is included along with the compilers, so you can still build LH code under M7.2 like the pioneers did when they were blazing the Oregon Trail. It'll put hair on your chest and build strong bones and teeth.
Object88, I understand your frustration with the "my" things, but really, has it affected you so far? I'm running on XP, and hardly notice the "my music", "my pictures", "my videos", "my downloads" because it's so unintrusive. My documents is something I definitely use though
Also, a few caveats. First, winbeta.org often posts "best guess" screenshots, so I wouldn't take these as official by any stretch (though they could be actual build screenshots, they could also be artistic impressions). Second, this is so far into the early builds that a lot will change.
That said, your feedback definitely helps the team improve this stuff, so don't be quiet on stuff you don't like!
Jaz wrote:14) well yes it is garbage, if you believe it i have a bridge for sale here.
I sincerely hope you're right.
Jeremy W. wrote:Object88, I understand your frustration with the "my" things, but really, has it affected you so far? I'm running on XP, and hardly notice the "my music", "my pictures", "my videos", "my downloads" because it's so unintrusive. My documents is something I definitely use though
I don't use "My music", etc. because I don't like the names. I use "My documents" (a lot) because it's a logical place to put stuff, despite my dislike for the name. I'd get rid of "My Pictures", but my Palm desktop software seems to want to put stuff there. I don't even know what "My Virtual Machines" is in regard to-- VMWare? (Work machine, bunches of stuff is there by default.)
In short, "My X" is a minor nitpick with me, esp. in comparison to a bunch of my other points. I should have made that more clear.
I think what I really want is to be able to designate a place for certain files to go (i.e., put my mp3s here, my videos there, my office docs, there, etc.), and be able to assign names to those places myself. I'd also like there to be a mechanism for all apps to find those places-- some kind of lookup table, I supose like what Explorer uses for associated applications.
re: object88 list:
1. you can turn off or auto hide that bar - or put the start bar in it - or put it on any side of screen
2. i agree - Close X = red
3. the last build explorer had a memory leak - it was apparently fixed in 4053? - but it may be back
4. i dunno
5. agreed ( i think "show all options" has been clicked. This page looks like a jumble too many options - or non clear options. For a better sample go here: www.google.com
6. My Stuff whips the pants of DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS
or docume~1 or whatever it was.. thank GOD thats going, you can also easy rename these to whatever you want. Id suggest having My Stuff - then inside that folder have downloads,music, pictures - as its your stuff ALREADY - your there.
7. good for parents i guess.. of no use to me
8. games - i dunno
9. download manager - not sure.. cant see a use for it. Id just request that ftp in windows get a "resume download" and not make you start from sctatch if your connection goes down. do we need a whole app for that one feature?
10. title area is the same size - but rearranged. The star is favorites and mag = search. ( i personaly hope i can turn these both off and not see them there - or replace with other icons of my choosing like Edit w/FP and Links. I agree with your positioning conserns - especially moving file edit etc down above where web pages start. ALMOST ALL WEBPAGES HAVE A LOT OF LINKS DIRECTLY AT THE TOP - so it makes everything look like a jumble of words. The open space is nice - but the file edit help needs to go back up - keep above where webpages load UNCLUTTERED
11. MSN guy looks like a 3d rip off of AOL - as it was meant to look like. I vote for DSHADLE tomake a newer one - or use the channel 9 community guy
12. rename them\
13. View selector - strange place for it - bottom left - should just be on rightclick whereever you are - or even better - hold wheel down on mouse and zoom
15 - i read on slashdot today palladium may not make it in - so that will free up alot of resources ( ps - yes i know at mary j foleys site shes reported it WILL be in there afterall - but we can dream right?
I know what you mean. All too well. I think I spent the first 5 years as a windows 9x/2000 user trying to fight the system. To have a *nix style home directory with all my files.
I think the /Documents and Settings/user/..../ is too long and awkward. And it's a pain when it comes to backup time and I have to make sure I get what I'm supposed to and not include any temp files etc. Hiddens files just isn't an option as a developer.
But it's like Sisyphus - the stone always roll down again. The only way is to put it where the system thinks it should be. Or forever push the rock of TweakUI up the hill of directory browsing. One just can't win.
I hear the goal is to make Longhorn run existing apps on low-end machines at the same speed they run today on Windows XP. But don't get your hopes up for the all-singing all-dancing Avalon stuff. Here's a blog post about this.
object88 wrote:6) "My stuff"? Is this renamable? I hate all this "my" garbage, it's a little too cutesy. Personal gripe, I know.
Yes, it has been renamable since, umm... Windows 95 or thereabouts?
No, seriously... try it right now. Right-click on your 'My Documents' folder, and choose Rename. You can do this with all the other 'My' names, too, even ones that don't represent real folders on your system (e.g. My Network Places).
object88 wrote:14) Not related to the screenshots, but what's this garbage I hear about the "average" Longhorn computer needing dual-4GHz processors, 1G RAM, 1T HD storage, and TWO net connections?!? I mean, I know its two years off at least, but that's fucking suicide! I plan on keeping my ~9 month old computer around for at least another 3 years, and it doesn't have ONE EIGHTH THE POWER. Seriously, Microsoft is either going to loose a lot of customers, or our landfills are going to have a lot of discarded desktops. And again, think of the laptop users!!
Anti-Microsoft people invent all sorts of amazing and bizarre lies to try and convince you to switch away from Windows. It helps to remember that.
Nice to see that they've brought "Shut down..." back to the Start menu. I hated Windows XP treating me like a retard with "Turn off computer". That was counter-intuitive since when clicked it gave options not only to turn off but also to log off or restart.
I just hope that Microsoft continues to provide features for those of us who do not want or need to be nannied through the computing experience. If the UI can't be configured to suit the needs of the user who's operating it, it's a bad UI.