Coffeehouse Thread

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HoTMaiL vs GMail - bring it on!

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  • User profile image
    lars

    Extremetech.com has a Preview of Google's Gmail Beta

    The part I find most interesting is that the amount of ad space so far looks pretty okey. Maybe they'll crank it up a bit when it goes public. But it looks pretty slick compared to MSN / Hotmail. I wouldn't use Hotmail at all if it didn't integrate with Outlook. Those flashy ads are just horrible. And it's only 20 (?) Mb of space? Maybe GMail isn't so bad. Wonder what MSNs move will be?

    (Image from Extremetech for those that think the article is a bit on the long side.)

     

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Yeah.. the ONLY reason I even have an MSN/HotMail account is for a passport, I don't seriously use the EMail services. I think GMail looks like an improvement over HotMail but I still love POP3 so wouldn't want to use either for a long period.

    As long as google doesn't send me crappy email from staff that you can't block then it would be a vast improvement.

    HotMail, where before you could attempt to block the staff account now you just get a message telling you your miss important information bluh bluh bluh twats! :-/

    Important my *.

  • User profile image
    Knute

    GMAIL = INVASION OF PRIVACY, TARGETED ADS

    ~ Knute

    ps - I thought we already covered this whole GMAIL thing. I love HOTMAIL, I even ponied up $20 for a larger inbox. I also like the fact that I can check my POP mail accounts in one user interface.

    My thought is GMAIL will go the way of the DODO as soon as they go public and some sensible board members decide that giving away 1GB of space does not make financial sense.


  • User profile image
    eagle

    spam@gmail.com

  • User profile image
    jamie

    knute - i normally agree with your posts - but gmail puts hotmail to shame

    the targetted ads are done by machines
    the only issue is the deleted messages - may or may not be deleted.. and im sure they will fix this

  • User profile image
    sbc

    What about Hotmail ads? Does paying for it remove them? Also, why only 10MB space? Yahoo gives you 6mb and Lycos (UK at least) give you 10mb for free (Outlook integration for Lycos and 50mb for £1.99 a month - 100MB for £3.49).

    Does paid for Hotmail give you anything extra, like POP access (which Yahoo and Lycos do anyway) or something that makes it worth the higher price when compared to alternatives?

    We'll have to wait and see for Gmail - the ads don't really invade you privacy as they are computer generated. If you are worried about privacy you shouldn't use free web mail anyway (unless it is provided by your company and is secure with no ads).

    1GB worth of emails could be quite a lot of ads - thus greater income for Google. However, there may be some that just use it to email large files to each other (thus no text for the ads to be based on).

    For those who are worried about privacy - do you have Gmail, and if not would you even consider it (1GB of storage probably sounds appealing to many users). It is very fast and efficient - unlike most other free email providers. Also none of those irritating banner ads.

  • User profile image
    Loadsgood

    I have heard to many bad things about GMail to change from Hotmail. I don't recieve any ADs from it or spam. Or any crap. So For me there is just so much more fuctionality (.net passport) and no spam which = a good FREE email. So vote [1] for Hotmail.

  • User profile image
    lars

    That could change.

    Microsoft adopts IronPort anti-spam "whitelist"

    "WASHINGTON, May 5 (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) said on Wednesday it has adopted an e-mail "whitelist" program by IronPort Systems Inc. that will allow legitimate marketers to thread the gauntlet of spam filters protecting its inboxes. Microsoft's Hotmail and MSN e-mail services, which together claim 170 million regular users, will require marketers to put money up front if they wish to ensure their messages aren't mistaken for unwanted spam."

    Nice word - "marketers".

    /Lars.

  • User profile image
    sbc

    It's a pity the US has an opt-out policy - they can send you email until you tell them not too. It makes the UK opt-in policy pretty much useless - as most spam comes from America.

    Personally I think optin is far superior - you should only get email if you ask for it.

  • User profile image
    JohnSands

    Very good article by Tim O'Reilly on Gmail: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4707

  • User profile image
    Knute

    I wonder how much GMAIL paid O'Reilly to write that piece? "Tim we'll give you a $100,000 to dispell the growing concerns over our new highly anticipated service"....


    If you guys want to blindly believe that this type of privacy intrusion is ok, that's fine. Just keep following the shepherds like sheep....

    ~ Knute

  • User profile image
    JBottero

    Honestly. If you need a gig (!!!) to store your web-based e-mail, you need to learn to archive, or just LET GO of the old stuff. 20 MB is fine, though I must say the gMail GUI is a lot cleaner than HotMail. As for me? I just run my own e-mail server so I don't use either.

    Also, I think there is a very real possibility that people will simply use gMail as free storage space for application files, and other binary attachments. This of course opens up the wherez possibilities, which I think need to be seriously considered. There are going to be corporate liabilities with this much storage.



    -- Jake

  • User profile image
    sbc

    How would people feel if there was a similar MSN service that did the same thing - do some just trust Microsoft more than Google? Google couldn't do this without the ads and they are far less instrusive than banner ads. Sometimes the ads are even useful.

    Wait a year and see if Gmail is still going - if it is, there are people not worried about the ads and without privacy concerns. Why are people worried about Gmail but not Google Search - which also targets ads based on content. And all those websites that use Google AdWords?

    At one point Passport's privacy policy had to be changed. Gmail's policy had also been changed - you can permanently delete email.

    People are free to use Gmail or not (if they do eventually offer it). Just like some choose not to use Hotmail (except for one-off subscriptions or downloads that require an email account to send to).

    What I do think though is that no one company should have such a large market share - Microsoft would probably innovate more if they did not have such a large desktop market share. I think this may change in the future with more companies adopting RedHat/SuSE etc.

  • User profile image
    lars

    As it says in the article:

    "No one is going to be forced to use gmail. If you don't like ads in your mail, don't use the service."

    Mail, and web based mail in particular isn't very private anyway. Don't get me wrong; I don't think GMail is a Good Thing. But atleast they are open about their intentions.

    /Lars.

  • User profile image
    JBottero

    sbc wrote:
    How would people feel if there was a similar MSN service that did the same thing - do some just trust Microsoft more than Google?

    People that don't like Microsoft (i.e. "those Open Source nuts...") tend to worship Google. And it works the other way aroud, too. I don't think there is a "trust" issue here, really.
    sbc wrote:

    Google couldn't do this without the ads and they are far less instrusive than banner ads. Sometimes the ads are even useful.

    And remember, Microsoft does not provide Hotmail "out of the kindness of their heart." It too is a commercial project, ad supported (I can not believe that the "value added" services account for a significant part of Hotmail's income.)

    sbc wrote:

    Why are people worried about Gmail but not Google Search - which also targets ads based on content. And all those websites that use Google AdWords?

    Because communications such as e-mail are generally thought of as "private" and subject to different rules than a simple search query.  Would you mind if I drop by your house / apartment, open all your mail, and pack in a few ads based on the content of the private communication I read in that mail? Sure, "real people" will not be reading your gMail, but still, there is a sense of violation there. Perhaps not rational, but still there. Also, it takes away from the experience of reading a letter from someone; it's an invasion of the experience.


    My 2.5 cents.

    -- Jake

  • User profile image
    sbc

    I just personally prefer Google's way of serving ads - much better than banners (or even worse Flash banners, or ads with video clips). Sometimes links are even clicked on as they are related to the content of the page you are on. Google keeps things simple, rather than try and impress people (although Gmail is actually quite impressive, very little unneccesary content is served).

    The privacy violation could occur with Hotmail as well - I am sure cookie tracking is used to some extent. They would only get information from you if you actually clicked the ads.

    As I said before, if you wish to keep your email private don't use web based email like Google / Hotmail / Yahoo etc. For that you should be using your companies email anyway (or even host you own email server).

  • User profile image
    Knute

    sbc wrote:

    The privacy violation could occur with Hotmail as well - I am sure cookie tracking is used to some extent. They would only get information from you if you actually clicked the ads.

    As I said before, if you wish to keep your email private don't use web based email like Google / Hotmail / Yahoo etc. For that you should be using your companies email anyway (or even host you own email server).


    I sure would love to read a story or hear from someone first hand that their privacy was violated by Hotmail.

    I personally am so used to the Hotmail interface that I don't even pay attention to the banner ads.

    I am not saying that GMAIL is bad for Microsoft because I am a MS developer. I think competition is great, it can only make Hotmail better. I just have a problem with the privacy issues.

    ~ Knute

  • User profile image
    wolveso

    Where's your privacy once a set of "legitimate marketers" are allowed by Hotmail / MSN to send you spam? It's only not spam when it's explicitly requested. Gmail uses an automated, non-human, process to scan the text in an email and deliver what it believes to be relevant adverts - seperate to your messages. If you're getting used to Hotmail's banners, then maybe they're failing at bringing you targeted content - so what will they try next?

    On a side note, I was just logging in to my old Hotmail account to compare with Yahoo and Gmail - but realised it wouldn't let me, the usual problems with connecting I used to experience daily : )

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