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Offshoring - You Asked For It

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  • User profile image
    Sathyaish Chakravarthy

    Dear America,

    You wanted the developing nations to open their gates by lifting barriers  to bilateral trade. You wanted two-way fungibility in currency exchange.  You wanted to exploit their purchasing power. You wanted to import  cheap labour. As long as there was shortage of doctors in your country, it  was all okay with you. You wanted full convertibilty of our rupee. You  wanted us to invest globally by clamouring for capital account  convertibility of our currency. You wanted to sell your products there. You wanted to open your McDonalds, Kentucky Fried Chicken's, Pepsi Cola here. You wanted Indian agriculture industry to support your manufacturing.

    What you probably did not imagine is that all business rests on give and take. You probably did not think of your part of  the contract. It's now your turn to give.

    I think it will end in the rupee strengthening constantly until it reaches a  "near 1:1" ratio with the USD, and then any other country that  encourages offshoring. This should take over five years.

    At the root of all problems is money. How much ever Bill Gates finds it  difficult to attract "talent" and how much ever offshoring lobbies vaunt the  availability of talented, english-speaking labour in developing nations,  and deny the unemployment situation of their own national human  resource, they're going to stop it when the dollar has evened out against  the rupee. You called for it in the name of globalisation, did you not? You started it all in 1991. Did  you not envisage the death of a closed-door economy into a borderless,  global trade territory.

    Wait for the rupee's upward climb and all the offshoring wisdom will  change in principle and suddenly indegenous labour will be touted as the  single-most effective solution. And all the "talent" will suddenly be inborn  and bred in America.

    My $0.02 on offshoring.

  • User profile image
    Michael Griffiths

    I seriously doubt it, any time soon.

    Perhaps in a century.

  • User profile image
    figuerres

    WTF??


    "Dear America...."

    well some of your points are valid and true.....


    but you seem to also be painting with a very broad brush... and by doing that you risk making a fool of your self.


    some of us are arrogant, have very biased attitudes and all the rest .... but not all of us.


    for example:  I would say that if someone wants to come here and work that's fine by me.

    and I welcome other countries and cultures getting the means to have better health care, housing and other things. I also do not want other parts of the world to be left as giant garbage heaps or raped of natural resources.

    If I were able to do so I would have folks working on programs to save local environments, get out of using wood and coal for power and about 1,001 other things that would make the world better for us all.

    so when you deal with one american jerk don't assume we are all like him or her.

  • User profile image
    Steve411

    WHO CARES?! We'll all die anyway, Korea probably launch and underground nuke by June. [saw on news].

  • User profile image
    Sathyaish Chakravarthy

    figeurres,

    I didn't mean to sound rude.  When I say America, I do not mean American individuls in their individual capacity. I am not implying at all that American programmers or any individual in particular asked for outsourcing per se. Individually, every individual is secular. Jointly, they're a herd with a mob consciousness that does not at all times represent the individual consciousness.

    My point is about the free trade policy that America initiated. The policy of trade that has loop holes. The policy that allows a several sweat shops to seek recourse in outsourcing because "the door is open." My post is about "who opened the door, and more importantly, WHY?"

    I am hardly arguing about the merits or otherwise of outsourcing. That is evidently clear from the short history we've seen in the recent past. The merits in terms of cost are more in the line of "perceivable savings in cost" than "realizable savings".

    I am betting on the fact that this ball that's been set rolling is not to stop with small policy measures like making native US programmers more cheap or making them accept low wages, or letting them telecommute etc. The motion will only be stymied by either a structural change such as a devaluation of USD or something that will make foreign labour at par with the Indian labour, which is not likely because of pressure from antogonist lobbies. You cannot reverse the trend by lobbying again.The other and the more probable solution to this will be the depreciation of the dollar against the rupee. Your govt cannot devalue the dollar on its own, right? So wait and watch the rupee climb up and then Indians will suddenly turn into sour grapes and all talent will suddenly be discovered in the US.

  • User profile image
    sbc

    Beer28 wrote:
    I wonder how well it would have gone for them if their first big break with the altair was out in bangladesh instead of new mexico.

    Or if the (UK) government took LEO (Lyon's Electronic Office, made by a tea merchant in 1951) seriously, and did not dismantel the machines at Bletchley Park after WWII.

  • User profile image
    figuerres

    Again more lack of understanding....


    "hire in America"  that idea just does not work.

    not in the "real world"

    look at what happened during wwI and WWII

    if we in the USA try to close off - hire our folks etc... we just setup more problems for us to face upto later....

    if the best qualified person is in outer-mongolia then so be it.  if we do not -- all of us here on planet earth -- start thinking of our fellow humans as equals then we will not last much longer.

    like the "agent" in "The Matrix" where he complained about humans.....

    if we keep fighting over limited resources and trying to out do each other to the disadvantage of others we will shurely all die.

    look at the problems of global polution, health and so on....

    we are all in this together on spaceship earth.
    if we squander our supplies of water, food, coal and other materials we will be just another fossil.


    look at the problems western culture faces like how to raise children with both mother and father working. at the rate at which "things" cost more and more and we throw them away so fast.....

    if we keep going it won't last, we all have to change.  I would gladly trade money and "things" for peace and well beeing.



    as for "loopholes" in our laws... well...
    bad law will not work in the end

    like a river commerce will flow and erode obstructions over time.

    look at the fate of the soviet system. it was based on s framework of lies and it collapsed mostly under it's own weight.

    I really can't fully express my thoughts with a few posts..... but I think we can have a great future if we stop fighting each other, and all war is economic in nature, so in a way capitalisim is a form of warfare also, but if I had to chose bwtween it and guns I'll take it untill we find a better way.  we are an animal that wants to compete... just a mater of how we compete.
    it's that drive that can kill us or lead us to some kind of "star trek" future. it's our choice to make.

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    Sathyaish Chakravarthy wrote:
    Dear America,

    You wanted the developing nations to open their gates by lifting barriers  to bilateral trade. You wanted two-way fungibility in currency exchange.  You wanted to exploit their purchasing power. You wanted to import  cheap labour. As long as there was shortage of doctors in your country, it  was all okay with you. You wanted full convertibilty of our rupee. You  wanted us to invest globally by clamouring for capital account  convertibility of our currency. You wanted to sell your products there. You wanted to open your McDonalds, Kentucky Fried Chicken's, Pepsi Cola here. You wanted Indian agriculture industry to support your manufacturing.

    What you probably did not imagine is that all business rests on give and take. You probably did not think of your part of  the contract. It's now your turn to give.

    I think it will end in the rupee strengthening constantly until it reaches a  "near 1:1" ratio with the USD, and then any other country that  encourages offshoring. This should take over five years.

    At the root of all problems is money. How much ever Bill Gates finds it  difficult to attract "talent" and how much ever offshoring lobbies vaunt the  availability of talented, english-speaking labour in developing nations,  and deny the unemployment situation of their own national human  resource, they're going to stop it when the dollar has evened out against  the rupee. You called for it in the name of globalisation, did you not? You started it all in 1991. Did  you not envisage the death of a closed-door economy into a borderless,  global trade territory.

    Wait for the rupee's upward climb and all the offshoring wisdom will  change in principle and suddenly indegenous labour will be touted as the  single-most effective solution. And all the "talent" will suddenly be inborn  and bred in America.

    My $0.02 on offshoring.


    If the middle class don't have jobs they won't be able to buy many offshored products and the entire offshore system will collapse (along with your economy). It is only a matter of time.

    Sathyaish Chakravarthy wrote:
    figeurres,

    I didn't mean to sound rude.  When I say America, I do not mean American individuls in their individual capacity. I am not implying at all that American programmers or any individual in particular asked for outsourcing per se. Individually, every individual is secular. Jointly, they're a herd with a mob consciousness that does not at all times represent the individual consciousness.

    My point is about the free trade policy that America initiated. The policy of trade that has loop holes. The policy that allows a several sweat shops to seek recourse in outsourcing because "the door is open." My post is about "who opened the door, and more importantly, WHY?"

    I am hardly arguing about the merits or otherwise of outsourcing. That is evidently clear from the short history we've seen in the recent past. The merits in terms of cost are more in the line of "perceivable savings in cost" than "realizable savings".

    I am betting on the fact that this ball that's been set rolling is not to stop with small policy measures like making native US programmers more cheap or making them accept low wages, or letting them telecommute etc. The motion will only be stymied by either a structural change such as a devaluation of USD or something that will make foreign labour at par with the Indian labour, which is not likely because of pressure from antogonist lobbies. You cannot reverse the trend by lobbying again.The other and the more probable solution to this will be the depreciation of the dollar against the rupee. Your govt cannot devalue the dollar on its own, right? So wait and watch the rupee climb up and then Indians will suddenly turn into sour grapes and all talent will suddenly be discovered in the US.


    The only loophole is the tax code. It allows companies to dodge US government taxes and doesn't penalize companies that have a significant amount of overseas employees (or benefit those who don't). Again, it is only a matter of time. I'd expect the democrats to filabuster any attempt to rewrite it now through.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    Unfortunately, when topics like this come up, people let their tribal instincts take over & don't really look at facts.

  • User profile image
    manickernel

    We offshore everything to Canada. Oh, and Omaha.

    EDIT: Oh, I see Warren Buffett has nominated Bill Gates onto the board of Hathaway Berkshire. Brings up an alternate reality thought, what if he had put Richard Stallman in?

  • User profile image
    ravikanthc

    Check this out...!!

    http://www.forbes.com/business/forbes/2005/0509/048.html

    Two San Diego entrepreneurs have come up with a very literal twist on offshoring software development jobs. This pair wants to get their hands on a 600-cabin cruise ship and park it off the coast of El Segundo, Calif., just over the 3-mile border that marks international waters. They'll pack the boat with engineers who will write code day and night.

    The two founders of SeaCode, David Cook and Roger Green, are confident their plan will float. All they need to do is classify their workers as "seamen," so that they're protected by international maritime laws that skirt the need for those pesky immigration visas. The workers will fly in and out of Los Angeles International and board the ship with a sailor's card from the Bahamas, where the ship likely will be registered. This lets the company avoid U.S. payroll taxes on the foreign coders. Cook, a former supertanker skipper, plans to dock in Long Beach once a month to resupply and dispose of waste.

    Programmers--sorry, seamen--hired from places like India and Russia would have their own cabins, work eight- or ten-hour stretches on either a day or night shift and have the rest of the time to sleep, play shuffleboard or take a water taxi to shore. Cook imagines a four-months-on, two-months-off work cycle. Take-home pay will be about $1,800 a month, compared with $500 per month for an experienced engineer in India. "We're not a slave ship," says Cook. Adds Green, "It's like the International Space Station."

    SeaCode's pitch is that it will still charge the same rates as developing-world firms (Green says Indian firms hide behind amazing markups)

    while offering clients freedom from killer flights to India, Israel and other faraway destinations to check in on projects. Work will also get done faster with two shifts. "Try to get American software engineers to work at night," says Cook.

    Cook and Green, who used to be chief information officer at chip-equipment manufacturer Cymer, have already raised an undisclosed amount toward a $10 million ship. Their backer is Barry Shillito, a San Diego angel investor and former assistant secretary of defense. Right now the two are close to making an offer on a 34-year-old boat called the Carousel, currently steaming around the Canary Islands. Says Green: "We're looking for a couple of anchor clients."

    As much as it sounds like a joke, the plan could work. "Nothing tells me that it's flatly prohibited," says San Francisco maritime lawyer James Walsh. That's because a "seaman" can be defined broadly as anyone who works on a vessel. But don't count on locals to be happy about a colony of programmers floating just over the horizon. "It's not my prerogative to tell them to take a hike. I'll leave that to the Coast Guard," says Kelly McDowell, mayor of El Segundo.

  • User profile image
    Sathyaish Chakravarthy
  • User profile image
    ravikanthc

    Never mind....It was just an FYI.

  • User profile image
    Sabot

    I can't see any problems with 'offshoring'!

    In countries like the UK there simply isn't enough I.T. professionals to go around to meet the demand so businesses are beginning to suffer because they cannot respond quick enough.

    Offsouring to some extent is one of the options to helping sort this out. If another country such as India becomes better off or even on an equal footing with established countries thats totally fine in my book because the bottom-line is that more people around the world will have greater opportunities and this is good for us all.

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