Coffeehouse Thread

43 posts

Team99 now a popularity contest

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  • User profile image
    Jaz

    http://bink.nu/Article3877.bink

    bink and ryan aren't encouraging people to use C9, just to nominate them here

    well hell lets just make it alot simpler for scoble if this is just going to turn into a poularity contest.  we'll create a poll

    who should be the 20 members of Team99.

    bah i did create a poll but it didn't save properly,  bah

  • User profile image
    scobleizer

    Jaz: it won't be a popularity contest. Remember, one of the goals is diversity.

    If only A-listers (whatever that means) get invited, then that won't be diverse, will it?

    More to come.

  • User profile image
    Michael Griffiths

    It's not a damn popularity contest.

    Really.

    Robert will be looking at who is nominated and why; he will be forming his own opinions on the people nominated, and will seek the opinion of people he trusts - Charles, other Microsoft employees, etc. Possibly Channel9 members, although I sincerely doubt it.

    Repetitive nominations will be viewed in a favorable light; people who can communicate effectively enough to incite that sort of reaction amoung a diverse group of people are valuable. However, if that person also advertised their nomination, that will reduce the effectiveness of each vote cast for that person (at least after the "ad" was posted). Additionally, it may be taken negatively, probably about as much as people nominating themselves, as it serves much the same purpose: shows that they want it, but aren't afraid to break unwritten rules to get it. Bit of both there.

    Naturally, Robert has a crystalline idea of the types of people he wants, influenced strongly by others ...higher up in the command chain. Smiley The people chosen may suprise you; his notions of what is needed may differ radically from how you see the process going on.

    Normally - or, rather, with a normal person (read: not Robert Scoble) - this entire public shennigan would not have happened. Rather, people would have beed chosen - suggested from friends and others he respects. Very much "behind the scenes". However, Robert likes making things transparent; that is the sum purpose of Channel9 and blogging. Therefore, he made it public - for good and for ill. He'll pay attention to it, of course, but trusted people will command more repsect: friends, other employees, etc. Even, to an extent, Channel9 posters: his history with you will ensure that he "knows" the way you think, or at least communicate, and so is therefore less likely to brush off any declarative opinion you express.

    Robert Scoble, and Microsoft, are in complete control of the situation. It's certainly not a "popularity contest" for at least one reason - they're not going to bring in someone they can't stand, because that would make the entire team unproductive. And useless.

    "Transparency" is not the same as "democracy".

  • User profile image
    scobleizer

    Michael, thanks, very well put!

  • User profile image
    Tekmaven

    Jaz wrote:
    http://bink.nu/Article3877.bink

    bink and ryan aren't encouraging people to use C9, just to nominate them here


    Actually, Bink.nu posts most Channel 9 videos to our frontpage, and we also post other important C9 things.  I frequent Channel 9, because of the great information that people contribute here. 

    And *sigh*, if it's a popularity contest, I won't have a shot:  I'm the behind-the-scenes guy Tongue Out.

    I understand how you might get the wrong impressions from my post on  Bink.nu, but just understand that I'm not forcing anyone to nominate anyone.

  • User profile image
    jsrfc58

    Actually, I was going to say that the main 99 thread was beginning to look like a Slashdot-magnet.  There seem to be an inordinate number of posts with this basic template:

    I have worked in [xyz] industry [x] years.
    I have a blog.
    I want to ensure developers get the operating system they need.
    yada yada

    But then, they do not leave any contact info.  No e-mail, no blog, no site, no bio.  And many registered over the past 2-3 days.  Can you imagine if the presidential race was decided purely by people who vote online? Ack.

    So, once you weed through all of those, then make a list out of what's left and then make peace with yourself because somebody will complain no matter who you pick.

  • User profile image
    Jaz

    i'll have no problem with the elected reps, but i do have a problem if all of them are going to be people like paul thurrot and tom warren.

  • User profile image
    Larry​Osterman

    jsrfc58 wrote:
    There seem to be an inordinate number of posts with this basic template:

    I have worked in [xyz] industry [x] years.
    I have a blog.
    I want to ensure developers get the operating system they need.
    yada yada


    And the 3rd criteria invalidates them IMHO (of course, I'm not making the choices).

    Client operating systems should be about people who want to make things better for USERS, not developers.  Developers as an audience come well behind users.

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    Another one asking for nominations... This is just sad.

    http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?category=main&id=28208

  • User profile image
    Tekmaven

    Tom Servo wrote:
    Another one asking for nominations... This is just sad.


    So, what's worse?  Asking for your nomination, or nominating yourself? I really feel like it's quite alright to ask nicely.  Again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything.

    Luckily, Steven and I were nominated before I posted the request on Bink.nu Tongue Out.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    LarryOsterman wrote:
    jsrfc58 wrote: There seem to be an inordinate number of posts with this basic template:

    I have worked in [xyz] industry [x] years.
    I have a blog.
    I want to ensure developers get the operating system they need.
    yada yada


    And the 3rd criteria invalidates them IMHO (of course, I'm not making the choices).

    Client operating systems should be about people who want to make things better for USERS, not developers.  Developers as an audience come well behind users.


    Very well said. You have just pointed out developers number one failing.

  • User profile image
    Tensor

    LarryOsterman wrote:
    Client operating systems should be about people who want to make things better for USERS, not developers.  Developers as an audience come well behind users.


    Very true - and somthing many developers could do with remembering when building any sort of software!

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    LarryOsterman wrote:
    Developers as an audience come well behind users.


    Isn't that just spitting in developer's faces? "Windows isn't for you, go and use whatever OS you want, you don't matter to us"

    This might explain the rise in use of POSIX operating systems of late.

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    Tekmaven wrote:
    So, what's worse?  Asking for your nomination, or nominating yourself? I really feel like it's quite alright to ask nicely.  Again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything.

    Selfnomination is no problem at all. Why have it someone else do, if you can do it yourself?

    Asking others is a different thing. Don't tell me that asking nicely or a straight request makes a different on large public forums? People are more concerned with sycophanting to the forum staff than honestly nominating someone suitable.

    I don't mean that the number of nominations is the main point for a decision, but you're surely not going to deny that it makes a difference.

    W3bbo wrote:
    Isn't that just spitting in developer's faces? "Windows isn't for you, go and use whatever OS you want, you don't matter to us"

    More like that there should be more users than developers. Latter ones have entry vectors via MSDN subscriptions.

  • User profile image
    Tensor

    [quote user="W3bbo"

    Isn't that just spitting in developer's faces? "Windows isn't for you, go and use whatever OS you want, you don't matter to us".[/quote]


    No. Too many programmers do not bother getting in to the mindset of the user when designing software. This leads to software that developers can use - not software that users can use. Never forget your target audience.

  • User profile image
    Larry​Osterman

    W3bbo wrote:


    Isn't that just spitting in developer's faces? "Windows isn't for you, go and use whatever OS you want, you don't matter to us"

    This might explain the rise in use of POSIX operating systems of late.


    DevDiv does a pretty good job of evangelizing to developers.  But MY vision of what this "Team99" thingy is about improving Longhorn for our customers.

    Yes, developers are customers, and they're IMPORTANT customers.  But as a percentage of the users of our system, they're very small.

    <sweeping generalization>
    You don't want to target developers.  They care about things like "Transparent PNG support" and "Full standards compliance" (to pick on the IE developers).  But the reality is that users could care less about that.

    Users care about things like "is the web surfing fast?"  They care about "Does my favorite web site look right?".  At a stretch, they might care about "Does my browser have tabs".

    Users care about eye candy.  Developers could care less about eye candy.
    </sweeping generalization>

  • User profile image
    Cider

    *applauds Larry*

    Absolutely, Absolutely, Absolutely correct.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    LarryOsterman wrote:
    They care about "Does my favorite web site look right?"


    My website would look right in their browser if IE supported transparent PNGs Wink

    So our opinions are important, since if suggestions we make that allow even more fancy eye-candy are put forward, then it benefits the consumer as well.

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