Coffeehouse Thread

25 posts

Forum Read Only

This forum has been made read only by the site admins. No new threads or comments can be added.

NetBeans!

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    Manip

    One of my fucking moron lecturers has Ordered us to write a program in Java using Netbeans and awt. Which means we have to develop a very complex application on easily one of the WORST development platforms in the history of the world.

    The Netbeans IDE was designed in such a way so it only supports 50% of the Java language and locks you out of all the areas you would need to make the changes by fucking hand! There is also a non-standard help system which contains about 5 pages on useless topics... Google doesn't even have useful help because all the good developers don't use this complete * so don't post helpful information on getting it to do what you want. Further more Netbeans is SO slow that using auto-complete is a waste of time (20 seconds turn around!)... The thing will freeze and not re-draw the screen when it feels like it.. Just for kicks... Also in the "form designer" they decided not to place boarders around any of the components so your guess where they end is as good as mine.. So if you place a component you better hope it is in the root container or you will end up having to delete it and start over(!). Things also "attach" to the side of a container so if you for example move a text box too close to the edge it becomes attached and can't be detached without deleting it and re-creating it... Containers also grow to the size of the root container and can't be shrunk again, you have to delete them and re-create, that includes all the components you placed in those child containers.

    The menu component does NOTHING, you add it to a form and that is it, no way to modify it, no way to code to it and it doesn't appear when you run the application...

    AWT is a piece of crap, it doesn't even have a frigging radio button! It is missing lots of components so you have to hack around it. You can't even make a button the default for a friggin container!

    java is slow, crap, poorly designed and inconsistent.

    I blame the moron lecturer who thinks making students do this crap is a good idea. If this was a job I would have quit by now (no joke)!

    -- This is going to take me hours, but most of that time will simply involve me fucking around with stupid * stuff that I could do in C# / VB(6) or any other of the options open to me. Even frigging PHP would be easier than this crap. It isn't even like I can just hand code everything either it actually says I have to use the form designer and netbeans, I will loose marks if I don't!

  • User profile image
    footballism

    if you wanna localize the java applicatons in Chinese,more strange and bizzare things are gonna happen.

  • User profile image
    CyberGeek

    Well, my experience with Java and Netbeans hasn't been nearly as painful, but I have complaints about both.

    When you say auto-complete has a 20 second turn around, is that literal? I believe that Netbeans is configured by default to wait half a second after a period has been typed before popping up the auto-complete dialog. For me it has been nice and snappy in most cases, with an exception being JSP editing, where it's so slow I'm thinking about turning it completely off.

    While I've done little with AWT, I have used Swing extensively, so I would say I have a pretty good idea of your pain. The library is very object-oriented in its design, but often at the cost of being intuitive. One of my most painful programming experiences ever was enabling drag and drop on a JTable (not just letting it receive drop events, mind you, as that only takes one line of code, I mean making it so you can transfer a row from one location in the table to another, or to a completely different table.)

    Why would your professor actually require the use of Netbeans and AWT?

  • User profile image
    Manip

    CyberGeek wrote:
    Why would your professor actually require the use of Netbeans and AWT?


    Why would he REQUIRE me to use Java at all? Who knows...

    Quotes: "a GUI (graphical user interface) using the AWT."

    "The submitted work must be in Java (Java NetBeans IDE) to be marked."

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Question:

    Why do Degree CompSci students do Java? Java is a 4G language and abstracts most of the "science" behind computers. Surely C++ with its advanced memory-management features would be more appropriate?

    Btw Manip... just slap something in J# and paste it back in Javabeans when you're done Wink

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Because we need to learn about OO before we can learn about using OO.

    And I can't use J# because I can't paste into the NetBeans Designer and it would get no marks.

  • User profile image
    CyberGeek

    W3bbo wrote:
    Question:

    Why do Degree CompSci students do Java? Java is a 4G language and abstracts most of the "science" behind computers. Surely C++ with its advanced memory-management features would be more appropriate?


    High-level languages like Java are good for learning CS at an algorithmic level. A solid grasp of how data structures and algorithms work, as well as the benefits of choosing the right ones for the job at hand can all be learned using Java. It's easier to learn these things in Java as the student doesn't have to learn about some of the lower level parts of CS. They don't need an intricate knowledge of memory management and other concepts required to program effectively in C++ to learn these more abstract concepts.

    That said, any CS graduate should have a solid knowledge of how computers work, so most (I would hope all) CS programs drop to a lower level later on in the degree. At the University I attend the first 3 courses are in Java, then the next course is in C++, and then after that it's more or less the teacher's (or, in some cases, the student's) preference.

    A student should learn the lower-level workings of a computer, but it's not necessary to do so at the same time as a study of the higher-level logic. Studying both at the same time would probably be overwhelming to many students.

  • User profile image
    Trancel

    Although it's annoying, and I still get annoyed with situations like this it is a pretty common occurence in the commercial world to get stuck with a technology, architecture or environment which you loathe. I have rarely come into a blue-sky project, always there is some baggage, or some restrictions that you have to work around. Sometimes there is opportunity to make changes, or offer an alternative path, but always time and budget come into the equation.

    I have come across all the following situations:

    • Brought in to an existing usually failing project where there has been a poor choice of technology for whatever reason. Often there isn't the money for a rewrite, so you have to work with what's there.
    • Bean counters have forced a project to pick the development environment on a purely financial basis. (NetBeans scores very highly in this respect!)
    • Your client/users dictate the development language. (On some occasions this has been because they want a familiar language so they can look at your code).
    • Your client/users dictate the whole architecture. (We don't understand this new fangled technology but we understand x, so do it that way)
    • Your employer has, whether for business or evangelical reasons, tied itself to a particular technology or platform, whether it is suitable for the task or not.
    It is also worth bearing in mind that whilst in all the above situations I did go through a phase of the "why am I doing this", ultimately the paying the bills, supporting your family instinct takes over.

    The other thing to bear in mind is that whilst there are plenty of people who could build a half decent application given a decent development system, there are a lot less who would be able to pull together the same with a lousy development environment, or even just a text editor and command line compiler. To my mind it makes you a better more flexible programmer (and ultimately more employable) if you can pull something together from what you are given.


  • User profile image
    HellSnoopy

    At my college we learning C/C++ on the first 2/3 years and Java on the last one.

    And we are using Turbo C++ (4.5) to learn C ... Don't ask me why.

  • User profile image
    lars

    Manip wrote:

    Why would he REQUIRE me to use Java at all? Who knows...


    Because learning to adapt to a given technology (that you might not like) is a part of being a professional. I don't like Java any more than you do, but it’s not always that I have the luxury of determining the choice of technology all by myself.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Beer28 wrote:
    i use netbeans all the time, it works fine on linux. Autocomplete is fast and the IDE boots up pretty fast.

    http://form.netbeans.org/


    First off that web-page is in Japanese, secondly there is no download link, thirdly I am already using a visual editor in NetBeans (which is that?) which is what my rant is about because it blows so bad.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    That piece of (I need to watch my language) is what I've been having (I need to watch my language)ing problems with, I don't need a god dam tutorial! I want the dam thing (I need to watch my language)ing gone off my (I need to watch my language)ing system! I have wasted 10 (I need to watch my language)ing hours playing with the god dam (I need to watch my language)ing thing, i give up! I (I need to watch my language)ING GIVE (I need to watch my language)ING UP! I am FAILING THIS PIECE OF (I need to watch my language)ING BLOODY GOD DAM (I need to watch my language)TY COURSEWORK BECAUSE OF THIS GOD DAM (I need to watch my language)ING THING AND ITS STUPID (I need to watch my language) DESIGN THAT NO PERSON IN THEIR RIGHT MIND COULD (I need to watch my language)ING USE!?!?!?!?!?"$£"£R£"$?$£"!)$£"O$£"L

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    Ok manip, but now, tell us how you really feel.

  • User profile image
    CyberGeek

    Beer28 wrote:
    So, I guess another option would be to try eclipse.org's IDE, which isn't as good for java, but is pretty good for C++. Or you could go with vi or emacs and javac from your sleek DOS shell.


    Except for it looks like his teacher requires Netbeans.

    I personally prefer Eclipse to Netbeans for Java. Unfortunately, Eclipse doesn't yet support Java 5.0 (...right? Haven't looked in a few months.)

    I also prefer Netbeans on Windows to Netbeans on Linux. Looks better, imo, and also feels a bit snappier. JSP is a pain on both, but even moreso on Linux than Windows (it began to freeze for a few minutes every time I restarted the bundled Tomcat server (which happens often when you're developing a JSP site, heh.))

    Manip, I feel your pain. I don't like Java much at all, either.

  • User profile image
    lars

    Manip wrote:
    That piece of (I need to watch my language) is what I've been having (I need to watch my language)ing problems with, I don't need a god dam tutorial! I want the dam thing (I need to watch my language)ing gone off my (I need to watch my language)ing system! I have wasted 10 (I need to watch my language)ing hours playing with the god dam (I need to watch my language)ing thing, i give up! I (I need to watch my language)ING GIVE (I need to watch my language)ING UP! I am FAILING THIS PIECE OF (I need to watch my language)ING BLOODY GOD DAM (I need to watch my language)TY COURSEWORK BECAUSE OF THIS GOD DAM (I need to watch my language)ING THING AND ITS STUPID (I need to watch my language) DESIGN THAT NO PERSON IN THEIR RIGHT MIND COULD (I need to watch my language)ING USE!?!?!?!?!?"$£"£R£"$?$£"!)$£"O$£"L


    Word. Exactly my feelings about Java in general! Smiley

  • User profile image
    Buzza

    W3bbo wrote:
    Question:

    Why do Degree CompSci students do Java? Java is a 4G language and abstracts most of the "science" behind computers. Surely C++ with its advanced memory-management features would be more appropriate?

    Btw Manip... just slap something in J# and paste it back in Javabeans when you're done


    Back when i did my CS degree, I did OO with C++, which help me 'appreciate' languages like Java and .NET.

    I also did Java - which was so easy after doing OO in C++.

    EDIT: I also did Assembler (8086) LOL now thats hitting the metal

  • User profile image
    CyberGeek

    Beer28 wrote:
    maybe your windows computer has better specs than your linux box, I don't know, I think java runs better on linux, by far, it's much faster, and so is netbeans.


    hehe, actually, it was the same computer. To be fair, though, there was something running on that Linux installation that was causing the thing to kind of rot. Performance was degrading over time, things were starting to break down in the weirdest ways (like I couldn't resize windows anymore.) Eventually we just formatted the thing. I haven't taken the opportunity to use Netbeans on Linux since.

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    Manip wrote:
    That piece of (I need to watch my language) is what I've been having (I need to watch my language)ing problems with, I don't need a god dam tutorial! I want the dam thing (I need to watch my language)ing gone off my (I need to watch my language)ing system! I have wasted 10 (I need to watch my language)ing hours playing with the god dam (I need to watch my language)ing thing, i give up! I (I need to watch my language)ING GIVE (I need to watch my language)ING UP! I am FAILING THIS PIECE OF (I need to watch my language)ING BLOODY GOD DAM (I need to watch my language)TY COURSEWORK BECAUSE OF THIS GOD DAM (I need to watch my language)ING THING AND ITS STUPID (I need to watch my language) DESIGN THAT NO PERSON IN THEIR RIGHT MIND COULD (I need to watch my language)ING USE!?!?!?!?!?"$£"£R£"$?$£"!)$£"O$£"L


    I feel your pain.  Maybe the point of the exercise is to make sure that you never, ever take a job programming java Smiley

    Those Professors are a wiley lot.

Conversation locked

This conversation has been locked by the site admins. No new comments can be made.