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Microsoft BitTorrent

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  • User profile image
    Deactivated User

    Comment removed at user's request.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    The people behind MS research don't release much applications, but you can download the whitepaper and implement the protocol yourself.

  • User profile image
    databyte

    Here's the original article posted at most sites:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/16/filesharing_microsoft/

    And you'll find a link to the white paper at the bottom of that article.  Here's the direct link:
    http://www.research.microsoft.com/~pablo/papers/nc_contentdist.pdf

  • User profile image
    rjdohnert

    Seems that the BitTorrent creator is disputing the paper and calls Microsoft's paper GARBAGE.  Enjoy,  |sarcasm|Microsoft cant even get research right|/sarcasm|

  • User profile image
    billh

    rjdohnert wrote:
    Seems that the BitTorrent creator is disputing the paper and calls Microsoft's paper GARBAGE.  Enjoy,  |sarcasm|Microsoft cant even get research right|/sarcasm|


    Ha...I was just going to mention this, too.  Beat me to it.  Well, here's quote, anyway:

    The article/Bram Cohen wrote:
    "I'd like to clarify that Avalanche is vapourware," he wrote. "It isn't a product which you can use or test with, it's a bunch of proposed algorithms. There isn't even a fleshed-out network protocol. The 'experiments' they've done are simulations."

     
    and later...

    The article wrote:
    The developer said Microsoft had completely misunderstood the way BitTorrent operated. The paper quotes "the tit-for-tat approach used in the BitTorrent network" as an inspiration for parts of Avalanche's own operation. Under the approach, a peer-to-peer client will not upload any content to another client unless it has also received a certain amount of content in return.

    Cohen said, however, this was a waste of time and had been discarded long ago.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    billh wrote:


    The article wrote:The developer said Microsoft had completely misunderstood the way BitTorrent operated. The paper quotes "the tit-for-tat approach used in the BitTorrent network" as an inspiration for parts of Avalanche's own operation. Under the approach, a peer-to-peer client will not upload any content to another client unless it has also received a certain amount of content in return.

    Cohen said, however, this was a waste of time and had been discarded long ago.



    Well if Bram isn't going to keep the only source of documentation (outside the python source) up to date, then really he should shut up.

    http://www.bittorrent.com/bittorrentecon.pdf wrote:

    The BitTorrent file distribution system uses tit-for-tat as a method of seeking pareto efficiency.


  • User profile image
    rjdohnert

    This was what I wrote on it

  • User profile image
    sbc

    blowdart wrote:
    billh wrote:

    The article wrote:The developer said Microsoft had completely misunderstood the way BitTorrent operated. The paper quotes "the tit-for-tat approach used in the BitTorrent network" as an inspiration for parts of Avalanche's own operation. Under the approach, a peer-to-peer client will not upload any content to another client unless it has also received a certain amount of content in return.

    Cohen said, however, this was a waste of time and had been discarded long ago.



    Well if Bram isn't going to keep the only source of documentation (outside the python source) up to date, then really he should shut up.

    http://www.bittorrent.com/bittorrentecon.pdf wrote:
    The BitTorrent file distribution system uses tit-for-tat as a method of seeking pareto efficiency.



    One of the pitfalls of open source - out of date (or lack of) documentation. Some projects are good for keeping documentation up to date though (MySQL, PHP, Apache, Python). Programmers should use inline comments and use them to generate the documentation (like you can with C# and NDoc). However, they do not see it as a priority. Do many write the documentation before the code that does the job:
    /// <summary>
    /// Check if valid user
    /// </summary>
    /// <param name="username">User name</param>
    /// <param name="password">Password</param>
    /// <returns>true if authenticated, false if not</returns>
    public static bool ValidUser(string username, string password)
    {
        // TODO: Write some code
    }
    

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    sbc wrote:
    Programmers should use inline comments and use them to generate the documentation (like you can with C# and NDoc). However, they do not see it as a priority. Do many write the documentation before the code that does the job?


    I've noticed a lot of DotNet assemblies have the XML comments present, but I guess that's because the functionality is built-in to C# (just by pressing "/" 3 times pastes the comment framework in)

    Its a shame this was missing from VB7.1 (what with needing to be re-implemented with VBCommentator), is it present in the next J# and VB8?

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    No idea about J#, but VB2005 has XML comments.

  • User profile image
    DoomBringer

    billh wrote:
    rjdohnert wrote: Seems that the BitTorrent creator is disputing the paper and calls Microsoft's paper GARBAGE.  Enjoy,  |sarcasm|Microsoft cant even get research right|/sarcasm|


    Ha...I was just going to mention this, too.  Beat me to it.  Well, here's quote, anyway:

    The article/Bram Cohen wrote: "I'd like to clarify that Avalanche is vapourware," he wrote. "It isn't a product which you can use or test with, it's a bunch of proposed algorithms. There isn't even a fleshed-out network protocol. The 'experiments' they've done are simulations."

     
    and later...

    The article wrote: The developer said Microsoft had completely misunderstood the way BitTorrent operated. The paper quotes "the tit-for-tat approach used in the BitTorrent network" as an inspiration for parts of Avalanche's own operation. Under the approach, a peer-to-peer client will not upload any content to another client unless it has also received a certain amount of content in return.

    Cohen said, however, this was a waste of time and had been discarded long ago.


    What a thundering moron!  The guy blames them for using the most recent resources available on his site... which happens to be 3 versions out of date!  The guy should grow up and start being a real dev, and keep his docs up to date.

  • User profile image
    sflanker

    We've seen some pretty sweet videos from MS Research in the past:
    Tour Part 1: Graphic and Developer Tool research
    Tour Part 2: Machine Learning
    Tour Part 3: Smart Phone, Search, and HIV research
    Next Media Group
    MyLifeBits
    Sigularity (C# OS)
    And many more.
    Maybe its time for another visit to talk to the researchers responsible for the Avalanche paper to set the record straight. Maybe it is just a paper and not a product, but I seriously doubt Cohen's "Garbage" comment is accurate. Channel9 is the only window the public has into the great work MS Research is doing, so keep it coming.
    Maybe Microsoft should try something like Google Labs where they let the public play with the applications the research people come up with. I know this would introduce all kinds of complications with regard to marketing, patents, and intellectual property; but I would trade internal organs for some of the stuff I've seen in those videos.

  • User profile image
    BruceMorgan

    Check out Kevin Schofield's blog entry on this.

    Yet another case of a reporter getting the story wrong (perhaps intentionally, perhaps merely incompetently), bloggers acting as an amplifier, and Dvorak (as usual) pushing the conspiracy button.

    Typical.

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    I read Dvorak's article, and it seemed to be spot on.  BitTorrent does not give you computer-AIDS.  Downloading sketchy products do.

    I'm sure the MS version works great, and in the future, it may be the better way to p2p, but I'm not neccessarily going to kick BitTorrent to the curb based on a whitepaper.

  • User profile image
    kevinsch

    I beg to differ --Channel 9 rocks, but http://research.microsoft.com is a great and direct way for you to find out all about what MSR is doing. There's a whole "downloads" section with all sorts of cool things. And (fanfare please) RSS feeds for news, downloads and publications so that you can find out when something new just came out!

  • User profile image
    sflanker

    Thanks for the info Kevin. You learn something new every day, I'm checking the research site out now, pretty sweet.
    That notwithstanding, Channel9 MSR videos rock, and I'd like to see more.

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