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IE KIOSK Mode: Fighting for a feature I love

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  • User profile image
    jamie

    Ive decided to make this SP2 fullscreen thing it's own thread, as I really really don't want to see it removed ( by SP2 ).

    From my past posts Im sure many can tell I havent been too.. amused to date by SP2, but I realise the need for it, and in all honesty - I do think 97% of it is great.  It's that last 3% that irks me - the main one being removal of Kiosk mode ( no status bar / no toolbar.)

    I also no many programmers here - for their own reasons - and past bad experiences - do not like IE to be able to run fullscreen.

    I agree that SP2 should stop auto-launching fullscreen - or add some type of close toolbar so user can get out.

    What i cant agree too, and the reason for this thread/post is - as ive said many times before - the ABILITY to use this feature - that Internet Explorer did HANDS DOWN BETTER AND FAR ABOVE ANY OTHER IMPLIMENTATION out there.

    Please Please Please Microsoft, LIMIT the launching of - but not the access to full screen in IE.

    I LOVE to make full screen interfaces - complete with my OWN media tuners, my OWN browsers and my OWN starbar and desktop icons..

    Sample:




    I beg of you to not DESTROY my creations with:

    1 - the status bar ( this appears even if i have status bar OFF in regular explorer windows)
    It seems totally pointless as you cant use this to close the Window in question - its just sitting there with its little  "E" icon on one side - and "Internet" icon on the other. Double clicking the "e" does nothing.  Double clicking the Internet icons opens Security properties.. still not allowing the closing of the window in question.

    2. The new SP2 top "MOZILLA STYLE" bar - with URL and Red X. Please AXE this abomination. It's almost the equivilant of the "New Coke"  * why try to be like pepsi when youre coke!  FULL SCREEN i take to mean..errr.. FULL SCREEN.  Is there a work around?

    In closing - I request - no I BEG - you do some checks with SP2 installed at my site
    www.grininc.ca

    Writer / Search + all the Desktops - download or run online.  One last note is that NOT ONE OF THESE PAGES ERRORED before service pack 2.  Also - all the interface desktops wherein the "Startbar" is positioned at bottom "0" have now all moved around due to the tweaks to SP2... as well as I use many many many inline framesw building this stuff - try editing locally - AARRGG!  Allow Allow Allow nag nag nag.

    Lastly - to all programers - before biting my head off - i ask you - They have already stopped all AUTO FULL SCREEN WINDOWS from happening - thats Fine.

    But I should be able to USE one if my USER Accepts clicking the "View Fullscreen" link

    ( example here:  www.jgrant.com/grin/search.htm  )

    Thus ends my heart felt request for MS to not remove my favourite feature of Internet Explorer.

    Thank you for your time.

    jamie






  • User profile image
    Manip

    Thread number - 10,000,000 + 1

  • User profile image
    jonathanh

    Disclaimer: I don't know for sure why this change was made.
    Having said that, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that it's to stop "phishing" attacks that create fake web sites, right down to fake UI features. With IE features that are always present on screen, no matter what, it becomes that much harder to create a fake site.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    re "With IE features that are always present on screen.."

    well if thats the case - could you make them smaller - and match more sites?..

    just black so it blends in with the outside monitor screen colour? - or perhaps make it use CSS like the current ie scrollbars can.. then we could at least make it match what we are doing  (designers)



    that said.. i think it works great now - ( everyone i know uses it at board meetings and presentations - to show off artwork or ads or ideas.. they want it like powerpoint, no bar. 

    Even locally it now has the status bar.
    Perhaps I just need to hear every reason why, what was done, was done. I think there was not enough thought put into what you are removing - only what you are preventing. To me - removing kiosk mode is as fundamental as removing thumbnail view - or some other great & useful feature. ** Ben Slivka where are you! Wink
     
    Trivia:  Here's a sample of what I use to bug Ben and Chris Jones with in IE3+/4 era
    www.graphicjam.com/ideas

    *yes ..ive always been like this Wink

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    Jamie, I must say right now, I'm REALLY, REALLY sick of seeing you complain about the removal of something that that Microsoft should have been sued for creating.

    Anyone up for creating an IE plugin that specifically disables full screen modes from ever being done in older versions of IE? I'd be interested in one.

    jonathanh wrote:
    Disclaimer: I don't know for sure why this change was made.
    Having said that, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that it's to stop "phishing" attacks that create fake web sites, right down to fake UI features. With IE features that are always present on screen, no matter what, it becomes that much harder to create a fake site.


    It was easy to trick people into thinking that they were in Windows (giving away personal information) or trap people in a full screen mode.

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    Agreed that it's been abused, but it's also been used really, really, really well in millions of other cases.

    The problem is that it is actually a feature which has become used, even if it was never intended to be used as such, in kiosks, applications, presentations, communiques, intranets, etc.

    Simply saying "it's insecure" doesn't cut it. Sorry, that doesn't wash. As a developer, designer and all around IT guy, cutting out a feature because it's insecure shows a lack of ingenuity. Are you saying MS can solve the spam issue, but can't give us a fullscreen mode in IE? It's just too damn complicated? Wink

  • User profile image
    sbc

    Wouldn't it be possible just to write your own Kiosk software, and embed the Internet Explorer activex control for rendering the page? Of  course it would still need to be downloaded, but it doesn't have to be big (you could either use VB6 or VB.NET, but both may require an additional download - VB6 less likely as the VBRuntime is often installed already)

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    HTML was never meant to replace a Graphical User Interface.

  • User profile image
    lars

    Jeremy W. wrote:
    Agreed that it's been abused, but it's also been used really, really, really well in millions of other cases.


    I've seen it used well once. One time. And I wouldn't mind seeing a toolbar. But I've cursed about 50 sites over the years that abuse it. The usage of kiosk mode never became as popular as predicted.

    I'm glad the little bugger is gone. 

    From time to time new versions of other people's software kills our babies. That's part of life. I'm sure that happens even internally with Microsoft when the compiler teams fix something and the Office team says "hey, wtf...?". 

    So, get another browser. Learn Visual Basic. Don't install SP2. Deal with it. Smiley

    /Lars.

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    sbc wrote:
    Wouldn't it be possible just to write your own Kiosk software, and embed the Internet Explorer activex control for rendering the page? Of  course it would still need to be downloaded, but it doesn't have to be big (you could either use VB6 or VB.NET, but both may require an additional download - VB6 less likely as the VBRuntime is often installed already)


    Yeah it is, however, the DHTML implementation that Jamie thinks he/she has the right to use is insecure and can be used to do alot of nasty things. It is impossible for Microsoft to prevent it from being abused (I never liked it in the first place) and the (this is an educated estimate) 99.999% abuse rate of their nonstandard feature (does anyone ever wonder why it never became a W3C standard?) in itself says what needs to be done.

  • User profile image
    sbc

    I suppose Kiosk mode will still work as it has done before in Windows 2000? I wonder how much work is being done on it, as many people still use it. Perhaps SP2 is a way of getting people to upgrade Windows 2000?

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    sbc wrote:
    I suppose Kiosk mode will still work as it has done before in Windows 2000? I wonder how much work is being done on it, as many people still use it. Perhaps SP2 is a way of getting people to upgrade Windows 2000?


    This feature is utilized the same way popups are utilized, in ways that people don't like. I'm glad Microsoft is removing it, why you aren't is and will probably forever be a mystery to me.

  • User profile image
    sbc

    Actually I don't like Kiosk mode really and use Firefox instead of IE most of the time. Popups should never really be used (if it can be helped) - some cases where it might be OK is help windows, or popups for images.

    The suggestion was just for people that like Kiosk mode in MSIE - it is better to write your own Kiosk software rather than use Internet Explorer.

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    [quote user="sbc"The suggestion was just for people that like Kiosk mode in MSIE - it is better to write your own Kiosk software rather than use Internet Explorer.
    [/quote]

    I'll second that.

  • User profile image
    jmutchek

    Is kiosk mode being disabled for "HTML Applications"?  This is the main place that I can see the real usefulness of IE's kiosk mode.  Some people actually use this feature for kiosks.  It would be a shame to lose that functionality.


    Full screen mode while browsing the Internet?  That should certainly only be UP TO ME... not the site author.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    re: Full screen mode while browsing the Internet?  That should certainly only be UP TO ME... not the site author."

    And with SP2 it will be = NO MORE AUTO fullscreen - but they have gone a step further and removed the ability for YOU TO CHOOSE if you actually WANT fullscreen ( presentation, Media tuner what not)

    Assuming you want fullscreen, you now have a totally unthought implimentation regarding - the status bar ( see above ) and the Mozilla bar at the top


    Ill summarise quickly:

    1. no auto full screen fine

    2. choosing fullscreen is now NOT fullscreen

    3. the status bar is UGLY - make it black and unnoticable - or better yet LOOSE it

    4. the top bar - from http URL now shows mozilla CRAPPY toolbar - instead of sleek - autohidable one we've all used for 6 years

    * Html Applications still function fullscreen - but the user must go through a prompt, and HTA's seem to disable javascript ( like the history (-1) (+1) etc

    so for me - as a non programmer - but that does no alot of scripts and dhtml ( for interface layer interactions) they dont fix my request:

    LEAVE FULL SCREEN EXACTLY AS IT IS - JUST STOP AUTO LOADING - OR AT LEAST MAKE THE BAR ONLY ONE
    (not 2 ) AND MAKE IT MATCH!

    thanks again

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    By the way, this isn't a feature, it is a security risk. This thread should be called:


    "IE KIOSK Mode: Fighting for a security risk I love"

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    Shining Arcanine wrote:
    By the way, this isn't a feature, it is a security risk. This thread should be called:


    "IE KIOSK Mode: Fighting for a security risk I love"


    It's a feature as soon as someone uses it as such.

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