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The next version will fix things, we promise

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  • User profile image
    jkwuc89

    Does anyone else sometimes think this with regards to how Microsoft rolls out new versions of its software?  The standard thing a lot of people used to say was, "wait for version 3.0, that'll be the one that works".  What do you think?

  • User profile image
    KHowe

    I know when I was at TechEd this year... that was the answer to most of my questions. "wait for Visual Studio 2005 next year", "wait for framework 2.0 next year", "wait for SQL2005 next year".

    oh well...

  • User profile image
    JDanielSmith

    From a VB6/VC++ 6.0 perspective, this isn't far off.

    Visual Studio 2002 and 2003 were versions #1 and 2 (yes, I know Marketing didn't call them that).  Visual Studio 2005 is where things will really "work".

    Generics, decent MC++, ease-of-use in VB.NET, CLR in SQL, etc.  All stuff that "should" have been in the first release.

    There will probably be a lot of people going from VB6/VC++ 6.0 straight to Visual Studio 2005, skipping 2002 and 2003.

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    Dunno, I always saw VS.NET as a complete package. There were no more issues in VS.NET than there were in JBuilder, Delphi or VB6 (for me as a developer). Some were brain teasers, but considering I was learning a new IDE, language and framework, the lack of issues has astounded me since day one.

    I'm not saying the product was perfect, I just don't think it's the best example to pick Wink

    Personally I don't see a lot of MS's new products being this way. I can see it in "the old days" (Windows, Word, SQL, NT, etc come to mind), but the newer ones (XBox, DSI, .NET, VS.NET, etc) just don't seem quite so ... cludgy to me.

    Things to be improved? Sure, but not in the same order of magnitute (to me).

  • User profile image
    Akaina

    I dont' really pay much attention to product launches anymore from Microsoft just like I don't pay attention when a new version of Acrobat comes out.

    If there's something they are capable of fixing it's already done. If it's something like security, I'de rather just use a more secure platform.

    Now OTOH, if Microsoft announces a bottom-up rewrite of windows (not just the file system, or the widgets) like they did with the NT Kernel, then I might perk up and listen - but then they always force backwards compatibility, which usually ends up being the limiting factor of how good a brand new product can be.

    Long story short:

    No shift in methodology == no interest.

    Channel9 is a great example of a change in methodology and that's exactly why I'm here.

  • User profile image
    lars

    That is how you make money. Fix bugs, add features, sell it again.


    /Lars.

  • User profile image
    sbc

    I wonder what would happen if a version was released that was not backwards compatible (except perhaps .NET)? Optimized for P4's and modern hardware.

    Of course, you would still have a version that wasn't - but the optimized version would be a lot faster and more secure.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    What can we expect from the vs.longhorn version?

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    Charles, what is Microsoft doing to make programming easier to learn from home?

    I wanted to learn C# but most of the code examples (especially the default examples) are in Visual Basic and when they are in C#, I find them poorly explained (probably because I don't know C#).

    I don't plan on programming for a living (it will be a hobby) and I'm a student (with a very busy schedule) so taking a course to learn it is not an option.

  • User profile image
    Charles

    ZippyV wrote:
    What can we expect from the vs.longhorn version?


    Can't say yet. It's early in the design phase. I think you will be very pleased with VS 2005. I know I am!

    Charles

  • User profile image
    Charles

    Shining Arcanine wrote:
    Charles, what is Microsoft doing to make programming easier to learn from home?


    Excellent question. Stay tuned... Wink


    Charles

  • User profile image
    Charles

    And don't forget that when a new version of VS ships next year, it will be full of features that customers requested (explicitly or implicitly) plus the usual innovation from multiple product teams working together.

    We're already working on the version of VS that will ship in the Longhorn timeframe. So, give us lots and lots of feedback about what you like and don't like about "VS 2005 Coming Next Year" and it could be that you see changes related to your feedback in future versions. This is of course true for all of our products.

    We're all in this together. The difference is that we make our money making products that help make it easier for you to make money which ultimately helps your employers make money. "Can't we all just make money?"

    Like it or not, money is the de facto medium for the acquisition of food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and other societal necessities that we have decided to adopt as modern humans.

    Keep on posting,
     

    Charles

  • User profile image
    Manip

    It is a good question, and you might get an answer but nothing is actually going to happen while 40y/o C/C++ coders rule new developments. These are a group of people stuck in the late 80's that still think *nix is big and unneeded complexity is cool. C# was a step in the right direction granted, but with silly things still there that never really did make sense in the first place.

    Has anyone ever asked why in Linux 'cd /etc' works and 'cd /ETC' doesn't. There is no logic behind it except what these wacko's have gotten used to. Why in C is 'var' not the same as 'VAR' or 'VaR'? They say because it makes it easier to read because everyone does it the same way, BUT if everyone does it the same way isn't that perfect for automation? IT DOESN'T MAKE SINCE. Don't let them wreck your mind..

    Computer programming doesn't have to be hard, it can be easy. And because it is easy that doesn't mean everything has to be done for you. What the world needs is a very high level language with low level extensions (ability to move low), not a low level language with high level extensions.

  • User profile image
    lars

    Nice flamebait there.

    Troutman's Laws of Computer Programming: "Make it possible for programmers to write in English and you will find that programmers cannot write in English."

    /Lars.

  • User profile image
    mharr

    jkwuc89 wrote:

    Does anyone else sometimes think this with regards to how Microsoft rolls out new versions of its software?  The standard thing a lot of people used to say was, "wait for version 3.0, that'll be the one that works".  What do you think?



    In a way, I still say its true.  But call the first public beta as 1.0, the first RC version as 2.0, then the RTM version is 3.0.

  • User profile image
    lars

    Charles wrote:
    The difference is that we make our money making products that help make it easier for you to make money which ultimately helps your employers make money.


    That is what everyone does. Just about everything we buy is made by people that can do it faster and cheaper. So we can spend our time doing what we do best, and not having to spend out time growing corn  and potatoes. Microsoft isn't different in this way.

    Charles wrote:

    Like it or not, money is the de facto medium for the acquisition of food, shelter, clothing


    Sure. You need to make a profit. And you do that by selling new products and improved versions of old ones. Nothing wrong with that. That is how stuff works.

    /Lars.

  • User profile image
    bwill

    You'll find its not just Microsoft that makes promises about the 'next version' - in fact, you'd probably be hard-pressed to find a software company that doesn't. 

    Having said that, if you have particular things that you think absolutely must be fixed in a service pack instead of the next version, please feel free to call shennanigans on us and tell us exactly where your pain-points are.

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