Coffeehouse Thread

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The times they are a changin' ?

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  • User profile image
    jamie

    "What you want is Microsoft to remove activation, EULAs and CALs? How would you like it to work?"

    What im actually saying is there is a new competitor that has already addressed the list above.. i believe MS has not. 

    If youre asking - what would i do if i was MS - i most certainly wouldnt sit on my hands waiting for the OSS world to get it's GUI together..

    For the EULA - for sure id write it in plain english - not legalese, id make it much shorter - ideally a 1 to 10 list of simple easily to read: You can - you cants.

    For the CALs - for enterprise customers - its probably a given, for everyone else though ( akin to Debian) customers shouldnt have to track software, especially when every machine you buy comes with windows ( ie; youve paid for it)

    For the activation.. if i were a propritary software company - i agree its a tough call - but i still belive if someone wants to "download windows free" they will.. hackers will hack it out - so all this is really doing is inconveniencing and frustrating loyal customers - myself counted amoung them


  • User profile image
    sbc

    Manip wrote:

    PS2 + GameCube + X-Box

    GameCube is dying



    It will be interesting what happens with Nintendo and the new Gamecube. They are doing something new with the DS and the Gamecube could be a lot more innovative than X-Box2 or Playstation3. This is because they are concentrating more on how people interact with games rather than taking the Microsoft/Sony route with adding the latest hardware capabilities.

    They also have the Gameboy that can leverage the appeal of the Gamecube as well. I think Sony and Microsoft are going the all-in-one entertainment system but Nintendo are instead focusing on a games console. The Nintendo offering is likely to be a lot cheaper as well.

    Remember, Nintendo is over 100 years old and has far greater experience than Sony and Microsoft in game systems (just look at how long the GameBoy has lasted and what happened to the Sega GameGear in the past and the N-Gage currently)

    As they will release them around the same time, Sony may not necessarily gain the upper-hand (it may offer backwards compatibility, but that is not needed if you already have a PS2 - you can just play your old games on your PS2). It may end up being (in order of popularity): Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony. Wait a year or so and then we will see who has the console market.

  • User profile image
    lars

    jamie wrote:

    So from the above list - every UN-NATURAL thing - that most people do not want - or do not like - has been REMOVED in it;s OSS counter part.


    Well, actually it has never been introduced. Activation wouldn't make much sense since you may download and compile to code yourself. And there is a kind of EULA. The GPL.

    jamie wrote:

    If youre asking - what would i do if i was MS - i most certainly wouldnt sit on my hands waiting for the OSS world to get it's GUI together..


    So, let's put you in Ballmers chair for a second. What is your solution? The OSS world does not have to make a profit. Windows sales is basicly what puts the dinner on the table.

    jamie wrote:

    For the EULA - for sure id write it in plain english - not legalese, id make it much shorter - ideally a 1 to 10 list of simple easily to read: You can - you cants.


    Interesting. I think alot of the EULA is about making sure Microsoft doesn't get sued. The other part is trying to tell you that you haven't really bought anything more than the right to install the product and use it on one computer. And you may not mess with it. 
     
    /Lars.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    Lars Windows EULA
    "By installing this software you agree  to not sue us, that you haven't really bought anything more than the right to install the product and use it on one computer, and you may not mess with it. "

    its a start haha


    as for what id do if i were steve b - here ya go:
    http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=4374#4374
    Smiley

  • User profile image
    lars

    I think we can make the EULA even shorter: "You're a sucker!" Smiley

    /Lars.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    re - xbox..

    i keep reading how it is not doing well - but up here toronto - all i see is xbox xbox xbox at the video stores ( BlockB, Rogers , Jumbo ) record stores etc

    the displays are huge - and there are contests and Win! everywhere.. not so for playstation

    re: Also, 'autocomplete' and the clipboard have NOTHING to do with one another.

    Yes they do - they take it apon themselves to ASSUME they know what i want them to do - when 99.9999% of the time they do not.  Recent changes in office 2003 have now made it impossible for me to copy paste TEXT into CorelDraw (12 latest ver i might add) - so to me - as i work in corel alot - its like they have completely buggered the clipboard to be unfunctioning.. The collecting thing seems silly, and the selcting text ive covered in another post - wherein over 20 replies AGREED

    I also cant believe that MS own devs suggest "just copy it into notepad and out again" - talk about cart before the horse..

    so automating common functions just dont work.. so why are they there - when EVERYONE ive ever asked wants them turned off?  Why its to add value to Windows of course.. broken or not - silly or not - MS is bent on conecting the "stack" in as many ways possible to protect OS - even if it is unnatural to do so  ( Copy  - paste special .. for TEXT?? come on....)

  • User profile image
    Manip

    If Office and CorelDraw have interpretability issues how do you figure it is the fault of the clipboard? Sounds like it is the fault of one or the other of the two products.

    One of the clipboard's strengths is that it is a dumb temporary data store meaning it does not 'look' or try and change the data you enter.. just simply moves it from A > B.

    Auto-Complete is a really handy feature that I just love.. you CAN turn it off but most people don't see the need as it just rocks so much. I can't imagine not having it now.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    sorry - i meant auto format - not auto complete

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    Jamie,

    You actually want all software companies to go out of business by only offering free software?

    It's all well and good to have a free software company where you provide support, but to release all software as free without any limitations...

    Is that what you're actually asking for (I'm unsure, hence why I'm asking).

    Just want to be clear about what we're talking about here.

    J

  • User profile image
    lars

    I dunno, but this is from that thread about what Jamie would do if he was Ballmer.

    "As of next Monday, all Microsoft Windows Software will be free - in a base version, that omits many features. But the underlining Operating system that is the windows core will be FREE!"

    Still I don't see what it has to do with the EULAs, activation or auto-format...

    /Lars.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    im saying theres a transition happening that shouldnt be ignored

    there already ARE 100s of software companies operating under this newer model

    i dont think its going to go away

    under that model - they have managed to get rid of things - certain "old" software companies have taken for granted they can nicely..ram down our throats.

    Im saying the alternatives exist..  it can only be a matter of time before they get the polish on it

    if i were MS - i dont know what id do..

    but i would start be relaxing stuff - i USED to be able to get away with - simply because there was no other choice. Maybe id choose Services (msn) - rather than software for future growth - or hardware w/software i really dont know.

    For a server - WHY WOULD I NEED A CAL?? Load debian and apache. Do I?  not yet. Because i have ONE machine in the basement - but if i was at my old company that grew to 24 employees during Net boom - you can bet i wouldnt be paying for extra servers.. or activating anything - its a server it sits there - there is free software you put on it.. as programmers say "works for me!"

    Personally - I need photoshop.. corel .. frontpage.. but mainly because i KNOW them. I also like a nice environment to work in ( linux dudes hate the Fisher price XP - i love it

    I wouldnt go to Linux - mainly because it looks like programmers designed the interface / icons / the way the mouse moves.. the driver problems..but..

    ALL these things can be fixed.. and im certain they will be.  When that day comes - and my choice is between learning some new apps - or sticking with this heavy handed CONTROL - i will opt for the less big brother of the 2.

    The reason this is scarry - is i am a HUGE windows fan.. i have every MS book.. i love and recommend ie - im not the most stringent user of "web standards" - im bascially the ideal ms loving customer.  So for me to be saying this - i mean - someone better be figuring something out - becuase judging from MANY other posts here and elsewhere - im not alone and a huge exodus could be coming.

    It also makes me mad - that the more "open" free - as in speech - software becomes - the more limiting and locked down proprietary solutions become.

    It really is just a matter of time before the OSS methods win - they will.  thats why Im mad - and im yelling at my favourite company to DO something like they use to - to FIRE jim alchin - to get someone under 25 running stuff from the top - to stop acting like this linux thing is about free as in beer ( road show ) and paying for fake studies and every other method available to prolong the enevitable outcome that MS - like the record industrys business model must change - it must change fast and sweeping - like internet turnaround gates pulled off before

    im waiting and waiting - and its just not happening

    So to end this off - if action isnt taken soon - i guess we can all look forward to a world where big media / big software and DRM create a closed universe and lobby to have free - AS IN SPEECH - alternatives legislated out of existance.

    Is that the road my favourite software company is going to take?

    i hope NOT

    * im sorry if i sound like im yelling - im frustrated + like the smothers brothers say: if you fall in to a vat of chocolate: yell "FIRE!" cause no one will come if you yell "CHOCOLATE!"

    Wink

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    Manip wrote:

    Yeah exactly. In the games (console) industry you have two big 'winners' with one drop-out...

    Playstation + Sega CD + Nintendo 64

    Sega CD died

    MegaDrive + SNES + Atari (ST?)

    Atari died

    PS2 + GameCube + X-Box

    GameCube is dying



    Where did you hear that? Last check Gamecube's sales are at the highest they have ever been. The problem with Gamecube was that Nintendo made the mistake of thinking that people would wait for quality so they took an extra year to make sure that it was perfect.

    sbc wrote:


    As they will release them around the same time, Sony may not necessarily gain the upper-hand (it may offer backwards compatibility, but that is not needed if you already have a PS2 - you can just play your old games on your PS2). It may end up being (in order of popularity): Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony. Wait a year or so and then we will see who has the console market.


    Personally, I think that Microsoft should buy Nintendo. Purchasing Nintendo would be worth the 6 billion dollars it would cost as their games and consoles are the best on the market when it comes to quality. Not to mention, they have the rights to classics such as Pokemon, Zelda and Mario.

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    Jamie, I'd love for you to show me an OSS company which has no activation, no CAL's and is not surviving purely on support and is doing well financially.

    Because all the execs from all the big companies I know (MySQL, Novell, Ximian, etc) are either selling support OR are selling lock-in based stuff: you pay for licenses, you pay for CAL's, you pay for renewals, etc.

    I'm not sure why you feel CAL's are bad. We pay for CAL's for:

    Windows
    Exchange
    Office
    Trend (server and officeprotect, as well as scanmail)
    Novell's products (eDirectory, ZfD, ZfS, Groupwise)
    StorageCentral
    GW Guardian (anti-spam)
    Citrix (in fact, Citrix doesn't have 'server' costs, ONLY CAL's)

    Not to mention all our clinical apps. CAL's are great because they keep the overall software costs lower: you only pay for what you need.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    Dylan cant sing.. and he poses NO threat to how we do things now

    can you believe some people like this guys voice?

    crank up the frankie avalon/aero

  • User profile image
    jamie

    hey jeremy W Smiley  im glad your happy with your current solution  


    another way to describe the TECHNICAL aspect of this is - again - there is this thing called debian - or slackware - or whatever.. it sits there - its free - if you know how it works it boots - it runs apache.. it serves stuff - all free.  no activation. no cals. no extra time. 


    Myself? Im just learning hosting etc.. i bought 2003 and xp ( twice ) - i think personally ive bought windows... 15 times..by machine.. thats just me.
    ( include old company ive bought windows 200+ times)

    so in reality - ive paid MS over and over - while OSS wants to GIVE me stuff (like ms in old days)


    all im saying is there is an alternative now

    - that doesnt make you monitor how many you are running - and its free ( this time, as in beer)

    This post is dedicated to Speech side though.. - eula / cals / activation doesnt exist in the competitions offering


    i ask - why cant you copy want they DONT do

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