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MSH - The Latest Linux Ripoff

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    Ground Zero

    Now don't get me wrong, Microsoft have their moments (I'm still don't believe quite how awesome the new VS.NET is, bit bloated, but awesome all the same) and I've always admired Microsoft's (pretty successful) way of being all things to all men, being able to develop (fairly) advanced applications and then with a few clicks being able to illegally download music. Yes, I also love the way M$ can (I need to watch my language) and moan about pirate copies of thier software, but when it comes to the idea of ripping off other people, they dont really give a (I need to watch my language), DRM was a nice was of telling the RIAA and MPAA that M$ now we do care about copyright, so piss off and leave us alone. Alas with the new Intel+Apple deal and the new Media Server with a hardware DRM, I don't think it'll work, but I digress.

    My objections (as do most M$ h4t3rz and Linux guruz) stem from the almost obsessive theft of ideas, that Microsoft seems to suffer from. First of course the had the whole Macintosh debarcle, and I think I can respect the people here enough to not go into details, if you dont know about it then does. Then came the new age, M$ no longer had to face court action, they had something much more powerful: Money. Now whenever they liked the look of a technology, they bought the company. It sounds a bit cras, but take a look at:, Now thats a pretty big list! Also if you look it stopped being updated in 1999 (Since then Mr William Gates has being carrying it on, in true Microsoft style)

    Another wonderful example is the infamous MSJVM (Microsoft Java Virtual Machine). Sun have created Java, a (slightly annoying) but extremely powerful psuedo low level language which (as a result of the Virtual Machine concept) will run on almost any OS without recompilation. The Windows Version of Sun's Java Virtual Machine, was slightly slower than native windows apps, but that is to be expected. Microsoft's anwer to this "lack of a problem" was to create their own Java machine, MSJVM is born. Microsoft then looks surprised and confused when Sun turn up asking to know what the (I need to watch my language) is going on and why have Microsoft stolen their idea. In this instance however Sun won the resulting court case and MSJVM is no more, gone! Along with the numerous bugs, inconsistancies and the fact that by the final version if you wanted to run a program designed on Sun's VM, it probably wouldnt run on MSJVM.

    But then came Linux, It had been rising slowly, a thorn in the side of M$. And on the server battleground, a true contender. It of course wasn't even considered a problem with the desktop market. The usual thing to do for M$ would be buy the system out and use what bits of it they liked, but there lies the problem; Linux is a community effort, even if microsoft managed to track down Linus Torvalds himself, that would land them nowhere. And so, reverting to type, M$ has gone back to their dirty old ways of merely stealing idea's and unashamedly putting them into their systems as their own. Of course its true that Linux copies Microsoft, but Linux is free and open sourced so its less of a problem. When xfree86 came out, and then X.Org, they kept it fairly quiet but take a good hard look at XP, did you know that you could have multiple desktops? Well you can, and take a guess where that bright idea came from: Gnome (and KDE for that matter)

    Now I was willing to put this down to good ole' capitalism until I heard about the new "Monad" ((I need to watch my language) name btw) and this MSH fella, and I'm afraid my silence had to be broken. MSH (For those who dont know) is the new batch scripting language from the folkes at Redmond. And I'm sorry to say the biggest ripoff since Windows 3.1 (OS or Application? That is the question!) They may have added a few .NET functions and called it cmdlets but (I need to watch my language) me, its just bash shell scripting when it comes down to it. Microsoft: Whats your justifiaction?

    This seems to have become somthing of a rant but I feel it needs to be said. To sum up, for those of you with better things to do than listen to a 16 year old flame people: Microsoft barely ever creates their own original ideas, they merely stand on the shoulders of clever individuals and organisations who get blindsided by the thought of money and relinquish a good idea. Just so that Microsoft can agree to stick to software standards, dont, and then bask in their own power as, owing to the overwhelming use of Microsoft software, developers have to deliberatly break stardards so that the majority of people can use their software.

  • User profile image

    Not reading it untill you add paragraphs, and I can already tell it's a troll post.

  • User profile image

    Paragraphs arnt supported till the next kernal

    edit: cool - now they just need to fix the broken capital $ bug

  • User profile image
    Andrei P

    I suggest a feature for the forums. For each topic that contains "M$", a warning should appear telling there's a troll inside and the topic is not worth reading. Currently I read 'till I hit the "M$", stop and close the page.

  • User profile image

    No.. sorry.. went trollblind about three words in. it was the "now dont get me wrong that did it"

  • User profile image

    MSH is, IMHO, a big step forword for MS. regardless what you think 'bout it, or where the ideea of a command shell came from.
    i'm not interesteg about this whole big ms-linux zealots battle. as long as ms produces great things, i'm happy.

  • User profile image

    Oh, shut up.

    I'm a Linux/Mac kind of guy, but I welcome improvements in Windows.

  • User profile image

    Funny how these guys never mention how GNU/Linux "stole" literally EVERYTHING from Unix.

    Wake up kiddo, csh is not Linux, ksh is not Linux, tcsh is not Linux, zsh is not Linux, sh is not Linux, etc etc...

    Besides, you post contains so many mistakes and inaccuracies it's not even funny.

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  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    I'm not even going to read it. Oh noes, Microsoft finally made a powerful shell... OMG RIPOFF.

    Get the frak out!

    And oh, MSH's syntax is a mixture of ksh, VMS and Cmd.exe. I don't see a bash ripoff anywhere. And bash doesn't have an object pipeline either. Nice attempt.

  • User profile image

    So, whilst everyone elses reaction to MSH seems to be 'about time', and generally congratulatory toward Microsoft for making an effort in this area, your's is one of 'what a rip off'?

    Maybe you think we'd be better off with software patents all-round, with no-one ever able to architect their own version of a competing technology?

  • User profile image

    Aside from the obvious bias in your post you seem to have vastly missed the point.

    MSH is an object-based scripting environment, this alone makes it significantly more powerful than the text based piping found in Unix shells because you can pass structured information between cmdlets rather than having to resort to trying to fit everything into formatted text.

    Instead of ranting, read up on it, try it out, you will be impressed.

  • User profile image

    Exactly. It is a rip-off in terms of that you type in those commands with a keyboard! Agreed! But perhaps even that could be "GUIified" since we are talking about objects. Smiley

  • User profile image

    And of course, nobody would EVER think of ripping off original stuff that Microsoft's done.

    Can you say "IE Security Bar"?  No, nobody ever thought of ripping off that particular Microsoft innovation.

    Can you say "Windows Start bar"? Nope, that's another Microsoft creation that was never ripped off by somebody else, either.

  • User profile image

    LarryOsterman wrote:
    And of course, nobody would EVER think of ripping off original stuff that Microsoft's done.

    Can you say "IE Security Bar"?  No, nobody ever thought of ripping off that particular Microsoft innovation.

    Can you say "Windows Start bar"? Nope, that's another Microsoft creation that was never ripped off by somebody else, either.

    Come on Larry, be topical.

    3 button mice Big Smile

  • User profile image

    its different because its object-based; and it was probably an obvious idea after they decided to base the windows api on the .net framework. although it also fulfills a purpose that many people have wanted for years.

  • User profile image

    Troll, not even a good one either.

  • User profile image

    Apple steals from Xerox; Microsoft steals from Apple; Linux steals from Microsoft....

    Computing is all about using ideas again. If that wasn't true we would have one platform using C++ and another still using assembly. I'm sure Microsoft used BASH to get an idea of what they need to do, it is not stealing because it's incompatible.

    Stealing / re-using ideas was not started by for-profit companies, it was started long before that and will continue forever. The only thing that has changed is these crazy patents that try and restrict computing ideas and thus slow down the entire industry.

    I want to know why you care if Microsoft uses a Linux concept again? Linux is open source... it doesn't hurt Linux in any way. And as you pointed out Linux does it as a day to day activity to Microsoft.

    Oh and by the way don't even get me started on how the Linux/GPL guys *stole* public domain BSD code and placed it under a GPL licence taking it out of the public domain (as bad a Microsoft using it in Windows without returning anything!).

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