Coffeehouse Thread

40 posts

A cool Unix video from the 70's

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  • fanbaby

    BTW: I'm sorry if I'm wasting anyone's time here by introducing non-Microsoft topics, I only thought it would help some of you better understand OSS tools and the community. I used to have two gripes with Microsoft. 1) Silverlight polluting the web, which was the reason I originally came here, and 2) Patent law-suits directed at Linux, Android ans OSS in general. Thankfully only one reason remained.

  • Dr Herbie

    Interesting video (haven't watched al of it yet, but interesting so far). Very telling that the conversation about the problems and approaches to development in the 70 could well be just as well about development today.

    , fanbaby wrote

    BTW: I'm sorry if I'm wasting anyone's time here by introducing non-Microsoft topics, I only thought it would help some of you better understand OSS tools and the community.

    My immediate reaction to that is the same as my reaction to Christians trying to 'save' me : I am perfectly well aware of the other points of view, please don't insult me by assuming my choices are based on ignorance.

     

    .Herbie

  • SteveRichter

    So why was Unix not chosen by Microsoft or IBM as the basis of the PC? Were there any key differences between Unix and DOS?   Maybe DOS being more interrupt focused, which enabled it to better work with the Intel CPU?

     

  • Bass

    @SteveRichter:

    UNIX was overkill for PCs of the 1980s which had very little system resources. It was originally designed for "mini"computers, which were much larger and more expensive than a PC. Here is a minicomputer.

    Generic Forum Image

  • Bass

    Actually Linux was one of first UNIX-like OSes that was explicitly designed for PCs. Linux was literally designed to take advantage of all the new shiny features of Linus's 386, and was basically hard coded against it. It's interesting that despite this, Linux is probably one of the most portable OSes in existence, ported to over 40+ CPU architectures. But Linux came around when PCs were a lot faster.

  • fanbaby

    @SteveRichter:That's a very long story, best left to historians. But i can try. Reasons:

    The 8088 didn't have memory protection needed for Unix.

    DOS was CP/M based or derived, so when many ideas from unix had to be grafted in, it caused some friction (drive letters, directory seperator, command line flags seperator ...)

     

     

  • AndyC

    There's also the small fact that, contrary to what many in the OSS world want you to believe, Unix is not the be all and end all of perfect OS design. Indeed it has a great many flaws baked in at such a deep level that they are now difficult to architect out (just as Windows does). One of the most disappointing decisions about Linux was that it carried most of that baggage with it, despite there really being no good reason to do so at the time (other than Linus wanting a free Unix clone for his studies).

  • fanbaby

    , Dr Herbie wrote

    *snip*

    My immediate reaction to that is the same as my reaction to Christians trying to 'save' me : I am perfectly well aware of the other points of view, please don't insult me by assuming my choices are based on ignorance.

     

    .Herbie

    What is this talk about religion??

    Oh, i see:

    Wink

  • Blue Ink

    @fanbaby: Cool, in the '70s we could film stuff from 1982. Technology has gone to the dogs lately.

  • fanbaby

    , AndyC wrote

    There's also the small fact that, contrary to what many in the OSS world want you to believe, Unix is not the be all and end all of perfect OS design. [...].

    Of course it's not. Plan 9 is.

    EDIT: I'm only half joking, it's in its charter Wink

  • fanbaby

    @Blue Ink: oops, too fast with the create new thread button  Smiley

  • Bass

    @fanbaby:

    Linux actually incorporates some stuff from Plan 9. The /proc file system is IIRC, not a UNIX feature but a Plan 9 one, for instance. Plan 9 just basically takes a lot of the ideas from UNIX regarding what file descriptors can do and extends them. Cool video, by the way!

  • cbae

    @Bass: "Plan 9"? I didn't know Ed Wood designed operating systems.

  • blowdart

    , fanbaby wrote

    *snip*

    Of course it's not. Plan 9 is.

    We all know the one true OS was BeOS.

  • BitFlipper

    Wow it sounds like that video has been edited. Listen closely for instance at 13:11. Sounds like they edited "Unix" over something else that he said. I also heard this earlier in the video somewhere but didn't pay too much attention to it at that time.

    Edit: And seriously, what is going on at 18:18?

  • spivonious

    That's a neat video. Plan 9 also looks interesting. Has anyone here used it? The whole "everything's a file" paradigm is appealing.

  • fanbaby

    @spivonious: It seems not many use Plan 9. I read somewhere that the reason is that its predecessor is "just good enough". I also think one of the major hurdles facing new POSIX OS is in the area of hardware support. It's hard to compete with Linux.

  • elmer

    @Bass:PDP-11 - and we all know how that is related to Windows...

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