Coffeehouse Thread

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A new SimCity

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  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    , Bas wrote

    I'm always online anyway, I don't really care that the game requires it.

    It's the principle of the matter. Is it okay for a game that you pay $60 for to stop working if EA's servers are down (which, if my experience with ME3 is anything to go by, is often)? Or if your ISP is having a bad day? Is it okay that it's impossible for the single player portion of the game to be played e.g. on a laptop on the go when you're not connected?

    I think this is a very bad trend, and even though I think it would probably not affect me personally much right now for this particular game, I don't want to encourage it.

    Additionally, from what I've heard you don't even own your save files with this game. They're on the cloud, and saving is automatic. So gone are the days where you can destroy your city with a slew of disasters to blow off steam and then just reload. You also can't share your cities with your friends, or download other people's cities online. And there's a limit on the number of cities you can actually have.

    It's just ridiculous. There is no reason for the single player portion of the game to require a connection. And as a retro gamer, I have to wonder how this will work 20 years from now. Yeah, maybe someone will crack the game once EA inevitably shuts the servers down. I'm sure SimCity is popular enough that someone will do it for this game. But if this catches on, if every game in the future will require an always-on connection with the publisher's servers, then there will be tons of smaller games that will just disappear once their support ends. And that's not something I'm in favour of, at all.

    So yeah, not buying this one.

  • User profile image
    davewill

    , Sven Groot wrote

    *snip*

    It's the principle of the matter. Is it okay for a game that you pay $60 for to stop working if EA's servers are down (which, if my experience with ME3 is anything to go by, is often)? Or if your ISP is having a bad day? Is it okay that it's impossible for the single player portion of the game to be played e.g. on a laptop on the go when you're not connected?

    I think this is a very bad trend, and even though I think it would probably not affect me personally much right now for this particular game, I don't want to encourage it.

    Additionally, from what I've heard you don't even own your save files with this game. They're on the cloud, and saving is automatic. So gone are the days where you can destroy your city with a slew of disasters to blow off steam and then just reload. You also can't share your cities with your friends, or download other people's cities online. And there's a limit on the number of cities you can actually have.

    It's just ridiculous. There is no reason for the single player portion of the game to require a connection. And as a retro gamer, I have to wonder how this will work 20 years from now. Yeah, maybe someone will crack the game once EA inevitably shuts the servers down. I'm sure SimCity is popular enough that someone will do it for this game. But if this catches on, if every game in the future will require an always-on connection with the publisher's servers, then there will be tons of smaller games that will just disappear once their support ends. And that's not something I'm in favour of, at all.

    So yeah, not buying this one.

    Now substitute business systems with exactly what you've stated.  They too are trending to hosted services that rely on internet connectivity.  Its almost as if they should look at this SimCity example and think twice. Maybe SimCity isn't having problems. Maybe it was too real.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @Sven Groot: I like Adera cloud save system. It was liberating to install the game on my recently intentionally recovered win8 and find out my progress is kept intact. cloud is not the problem. The problem is the game is broken already.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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    PopeDai

    , davewill wrote

    Now substitute business systems with exactly what you've stated.  They too are trending to hosted services that rely on internet connectivity.  Its almost as if they should look at this SimCity example and think twice. Maybe SimCity isn't having problems. Maybe it was too real.

    It depends on the system... and the customer.

    When I used to write SaaS business applications the customers were generally savvy enough to stipulate that unless the SaaS service had an SPLA with at least four nine's (99.99% uptime) and that they have the means to download their data at any time - they were happy with a raw backup of their database files. Unfortunately retail consumers do not have negotiating power with the developers or publishers - but businesses systems will be okay so long as the people in the companies are smart enough.

  • User profile image
    Craig_​Matthews

    Sure. Although I bet most small businesses within the price range of an Office 365 or a CrashplanPro/Carbonite or Windows InTune have about the same negotiating power as your average SimCity player.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    , magicalclick wrote

    @Sven Groot: I like Adera cloud save system. It was liberating to install the game on my recently intentionally recovered win8 and find out my progress is kept intact. cloud is not the problem. The problem is the game is broken already.

    The option to store saves on the cloud is fine. ME3 syncs my saves with the cloud, but they are also on my own computer, so if I want I can copy them, give them to others, muck about with save editors, etc. From what I've been told about SimCity's system, that's not possible. And to limit the number of cities your allowed to have is also stupid.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @Sven Groot:

    I know. That's how cloud gone wrong. I am actually ok with cloud done right. Even if you can keep your own copy, the whole social tiny map aspect crippled the game anyway. So, I don't think the cloud thing would make a difference even if it is saved.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    kettch

    @Sven Groot: Yuck. I can get pretty OCD when it comes to playing games. I like iterating and rolling back to previous saves over and over until I get it perfect.

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    Reminds me of Sim Ant. I bought the game but never got around to really playing it. Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    , figuerres wrote

    *snip*

    how much of a test was that ?  I think it was more of a marketing game, give a sample and at then end of each game they were doing adverts to pre order the game.

    It wasn't just a marketing game, they did use feedback from testers to improve things; and they were also testing the capability of the servers.

    Still, they did seem to go out of the way to not give beta testers much value for their playtesting. I got an e-mail invite the same day they wanted me to test, couple hours notice, the test was only for a couple of hours, and the sessions were still limited to 1 hr. I participated in the previous open beta. Where was my incentive to help them out??

  • User profile image
    cheong

    , davewill wrote

    *snip*

    Now substitute business systems with exactly what you've stated.  They too are trending to hosted services that rely on internet connectivity.  Its almost as if they should look at this SimCity example and think twice. Maybe SimCity isn't having problems. Maybe it was too real.

    Their problem is on the server side data bottleneck.

    Need to queue to connect is bad, but I've seen people complain that when the connection is lost when they're playing the game, when reconnected the server put the player on queue and need half hour to connect. This certainly is very damaging to the gameplay experience.

    To illustrate the issue:

    Don't get me wrong, the game itself is great. When it works, that is. And oh boy, does it hate working.

    At the time of writing this piece, SimCity 5 has been active for almost 62 hours. Of those 62 hours, I've been able to log in for around ten. Of those ten, four consisted of massive latency issues and corrupted games, so (quick calculation here), I've had access to the actual game for maybe 10 percent of the time I've had it. EA's servers are, to put it bluntly, utterly bug[redacted], and there's no option to play the game offline.
    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    cheong

    , Sven Groot wrote

    *snip*

    The option to store saves on the cloud is fine. ME3 syncs my saves with the cloud, but they are also on my own computer, so if I want I can copy them, give them to others, muck about with save editors, etc. From what I've been told about SimCity's system, that's not possible. And to limit the number of cities your allowed to have is also stupid.

    And you're not being able to transfer your "saves" between servers (at least for now). That means if you started your city and later know your friends are on different servers than what you selected, your friends can't join your game.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    cheong

    Modder found that when turn on debug mode, the game runs without any network connection. The only drawback is that you can't save the same in progress because it'll save to the cloud only.

    So it seems that this is just an excuse for DRM.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    He got the game to save on the servers. They had two guys on his hacked region playing on the SimCity servers. And it saved and reloaded. EA lied about having to be online, and Maxis lied about the Glassbox engine, which users are seeing so many bugs and horrible algorithms it's not funny anymore.

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