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Annoying Installers

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  • User profile image
    lensman

    A better solution is never install it.  If you are tired of the upgrade notifications, turn them off.  Also check your services as some of these folks have started installing "update services".  Do not forget to check your "run" and "runonce" registry keys (there about 8 of them) and nuke the unnecessary items there as well.

  • User profile image
    Bass

    @wkempf:

    So you volunteer to pay the Java and Flash developer's salaries, or at least have an idea for a better business model?

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    , Bass wrote

    This is a problem of control that only computer nerds seem to care about. Others will either not notice or find the bundled "crapware" useful.

    That's nonsense. Back when I was in the Netherlands, friends and family would so often ask me to come round to clean out the crap they'd accumulated in this fashion that I took to charging for it because there is only so much time I'm willing to put into computer maintenance charity work.

    And every time I'd tell them to watch for checkboxes when installing stuff. Most of the time I knew exactly what they were installing that got them the crapware, so I told them "next time you install an update for X, make sure you uncheck Y". And then two months later I got called to remove Y again.

    At least it did actually make me some money, since some of them were so desperate that even though I charged for it, they still wanted me to do it.

    So my experience is completely opposite your notion that ordinary users "won't mind" crapware.

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    , lensman wrote

    If you are tired of the upgrade notifications, turn them off.

    Yes, that's a fantastic idea...

     

  • User profile image
    TheGnu

    @Typhoon87: As a SCCM/Configmgr person I completely agree, Java is a real PITA but .Net updates are too, if they arrive on the client in the wrong order I've not found a fix beyond rebuild, the client scan rejects the update as not required, but won't install any others as the other updates say they are not needed and then the engine won't install anything as updates are outstanding.

    This really needs fixing.

  • User profile image
    lensman

    @GoddersUK:  Are you suggesting that turning off the notification is a unwise thing?  I am not a newbie and upgrade when I determine I need to.  Having something annoy (aka, nag) me to upgrade my system is pointless.  Besides having 3 dozen software packages "phone home" on reboot's takes time.  Why should I give someone feedback on my reboot schedule?  Besides my time is too valuable. 

    If you operate from the view point that "someone has to keep you secure", I disagree with the philosophy.  I have been on the net since 1979, before 2400 baud modems, with zero infections.  No, that is not zero known infections, that is zero infections.  I am the guy you call when all of your Catholic schools computers have been broadcasting porn all summer and you need to open tomorrow.  (A real life scenario which I have helped out at)  

  • User profile image
    Typhoon87

    @TheGnu:

    Java is probably in  my top three for worst installer ever.

    With Java you can disable the upgrades if you either go in and edit the MSI manually with Orca or simular tool, which is kind of a pain as well.

    I wish Oracle would either rewrite thier installer or give you an admin tool to create the installer kind of like Adobe does for Acrobat.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    Java is a real PITA but .Net updates are too

    Doesn't .NET update as part of the installer for an app that needs a newer version of .NET, with security updates being pushed through Windows Update?

    I'm not sure how that even compares with Oracle's utter failure to patch actively exploited vulnerabilities for 2 months after they knew the bug was being used to exploit malware.

    And Microsoft doesn't bundle crapware with .NET installers, unlike Oracle.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @evildictaitor: I was wondering why you wouldn't just handle .NET updates through WSUS so that your machines are always updated through a more solid mechanism, and then doing your application installs through other means.

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    , lensman wrote

    @GoddersUK:  Are you suggesting that turning off the notification is a unwise thing?  I am not a newbie and upgrade when I determine I need to.  Having something annoy (aka, nag) me to upgrade my system is pointless.

    For you and I who will hear when an urgent patch is required, perhaps (and even then we can't know about every patch for everything all the time). I certainly have better things to do with my time than manually check all my software is up to date. For the average user? No it's not. That's the only way they'll ever update their software.

    Besides having 3 dozen software packages "phone home" on reboot's takes time.  Why should I give someone feedback on my reboot schedule?  Besides my time is too valuable.

    Actually, iirc, Java, for instance, only checks for updates once a month. Besides, how often do you reboot your computer? A couple of times a day at most? Less if you use hibernate.

    with zero infections.  No, that is not zero known infections, that is zero infections.

    By definition you can't say that, so don't try. And, as they say, "the pride comes before the fall". Besides, no matter how careful you are, you can never be sure that a legitimate webpage isn't serving ads with exploits, that a computer you plug your flash drive into is clean, that that PDF someone sent you doesn't have an exploit, that your favourite web page hasn't been hacked. So often so much your security is outside of your control that that's a really, really dangerous attitude to have.

     

    I am the guy you call when all of your Catholic schools computers have been broadcasting porn all summer and you need to open tomorrow.  (A real life scenario which I have helped out at)  

    So are most of the people on this forum...

  • User profile image
    kettch

    , GoddersUK wrote

    Besides, how often do you reboot your computer? A couple of times a day at most? Less if you use hibernate.

    most of the people on this forum...

    Yikes, I don't reboot more than once a month for Windows updates, and a lot of those application updates complain if there's a pending reboot or updates. So, they ended up backed up several deep. I've gotten rid of all of them, and I'm sticking with the Reader app until Adobe comes up with a WS version.

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    @kettch: So something that checks for updates on a reboot won't be wasting much of your time Wink

    EDIT: This is probably another way in which the average users of this forum is different from an "average joe".

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    The really great thing about the Java Updater is that if you're running as a limited user (like I am) it will notify you of an update, nag you to download it, then the download will fail because you're not an administrator, and then it'll go through the whole thing again next time you log in.

    Too bad I need Java for my work (and also Minecraft Tongue Out ).

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    , AndyC wrote

    @wkempf: That Flash one nearly caught me out the other day on my W7 netbook. Thankfully I was able to cancel it before it had downloaded Chrome, Google Toolbar and who else know what. Normally I'm careful enough to deselect all those kind of things, so I suspect it been even more devious in stealth hiding that option. Java, however, has not been installed on any of my machines

    Haha the exact same thing happened to me. I'm so conditioned to clicking through the Flash installer by now that I missed how they sneaked in the Chrome and Google Toolbar installs. Next thing I had this installer going through it's steps showing Chrome and Google Toolbar as next steps. What The F...!!?? There was no cancel button, just a close button so I immediately clicked on that and fortunately the POS didn't get to do its dirty little deeds. After that I checked my wife's computer to make sure that crap wasn't installed on her computer either. I actually ranted about this same thing somewhere on this forum after that. This is getting ridiculous.

    After this I visit the Add/Remove Programs list on a regular basis to make sure there aren't uninvited stuff there.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    My mother's bank needs java *sigh* So I bought her a subscription to ninite which updates everything, silently, with no ad-ware.

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    @blowdart: If I've had to fix someone elses machine (and periodically on my machine) I run Secunia PSI to catch any out of date software that I've missed. The software isn't trouble free enough for me to recommend it to less computer literate people though.

     

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    , GoddersUK wrote

    @blowdart: If I've had to fix someone elses machine (and periodically on my machine) I run Secunia PSI to catch any out of date software that I've missed. The software isn't trouble free enough for me to recommend it to less computer literate people though.

     

    Yea I run Secunia at home.

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