Coffeehouse Thread

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Asus Me400c, Surface RT, and Surface 2?

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  • User profile image
    xied75

    Dear all,

    Recently I was looking at Asus Me400c, Atom based "Tablet PC" running full Win8, in UK the cheapest price is about 340 GBP, while Surface RT is 399 GBP.

    1, I suppose that Atom is faster than the Arm inside RT?

    2, About same weight?

    3, Me400c with full Win8, means it runs Visual Studio, runs Windows Store, runs App

    Then what is the point to let RT survive? Is there any reason except RT does look much better?

    On another issue, given the UK only got the Surface Pro released today or yesterday, I feel it's very unlikely the Surface Pro 2 with haswell will come out for purchase at least for half a year? Or even make the announcement in Build, cause otherwise who is going to buy the old one? (Unless they are pretty sure how to clean the stock.)

    Opinions welcome,

    Best,

    Dong

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    Yeah, don't get RT, get a Pro. Desktop means you can run "normal" apps like I do every day, e.g. FeedDemon, Tweetdeck, the "real" OneNote 2013(not the metro one).

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    But on a day to day basis having the Office licence bundled with RT is a real plus - you guys probably get it for free but don't underestimate it's value. 

    Also the smallest and lightest Windows Machines are still RT based (although Intel is pretty close and has the advantage of legacy compatibility of course)

     

    I have the ASUS RT device - the one that is also a laptop/detachable Screen - its a very nice device to use and I usually reach for it in preference to the ME400.

     

    Note to self:  You have way too many tablet devices at the moment

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    @xied75: The thing you need to ask yourself is if you are really going to run Visual Studio on a 10" Atom device.

    If the tablet is more for casual use, browsing the web, checking email, occasional Office work, then Windows RT makes a lot more sense.

  • User profile image
    xied75

    @Ian2, yes Office licence is a valid point.

    RT weight: 680g.

    Me400c weight: 580g.

    Both 10".

    Battery lasts about same time.

    @spivonious, the PDC 2009 Acer laptop is running a su2300, which based on some CPU benchmark, it's about the same (a bit higher) than the Atom Z2670 in Me400c, I have been using that Acer for those years for real projects with VS2010 and VS2012.

    My main point is trying to ask given cheaper price, same size, same weight, same battery life, how can RT survive all those Atom guys.

     

    Best,

    Dong

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    I have a Surface RT and had an Acer W700. The Atom on the Acer is 32 bits only and supports 2Gb of RAM. While it's possible to install VS2k12+WP7 dev tools, developing on that setup is practically impossible. Outlook is borderline viable if you disable a bunch of addons.

    Battery life is definitely *not* the same. Maybe with Haswell it will improve, but for now ARM holds that crown easily.

    Unless you absolutely need to run some Win32 app that has no Metro equivalent, there's no contest on the overall usefulness of a ARM/RT tablet vs a Win8/Atom one.

    That said, Surface RT + Type cover >> Surface RT + Touch cover Smiley

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    @xied75:I'm talking about all options - where RT has the advantage of being the lightest Windows based device on the market.  This is good now but will perhaps be even more relevant to 7" devices.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @xied75: for people who loves to install expired malware bytes and anti-virus software and insist on installing virus and spywares, WinRT is the only way to go.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    Jim Young

    , spivonious wrote

    @xied75: The thing you need to ask yourself is if you are really going to run Visual Studio on a 10" Atom device.

    If the tablet is more for casual use, browsing the web, checking email, occasional Office work, then Windows RT makes a lot more sense.

    VS on an Atom tablet? Sounds like hell. I bought my Surface RT as an iPad replacement and I've been very happy with it. The ARM tablets have exceptional standby battery life. I've evaluated both Atom and RT tablets and my observation is that the RT tablets are a lot more stable, probably because they don't have to accommodate backward compatibility with x86.

  • User profile image
    Richard.Hein

    I bought a Surface Pro 128GB for my wife on her first Mother's Day.  It's really nice, faster than the RT, but thicker, heavier (not too bad), and a lot hotter than the RT.  It runs out of juice much faster, faster than you might expect.  The pen input is great, especially for the desktop where fingers are just too big to accurately interact.  I installed VS2012 and updates, but haven't had a chance to get it away from her long enough to try coding on it.  Hope to do that soon.  However, I've noticed that she switches between the RT and Pro like it's nothing, and doesn't seem to care, and may actually prefer the RT because it's lighter and cooler and doesn't run out of power on her all day long.  She probably doesn't want to tell me she prefers the RT, but it wouldn't bother me because then I'd just use the Pro and she can keep my RT.

     I was pretty disappointed that the Pro doesn't have Office on it though ... have to say ... did not even think about it.  I assumed it would be included.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    , PaoloM wrote

    Battery life is definitely *not* the same. Maybe with Haswell it will improve, but for now ARM holds that crown easily.

    Haswell will provide be much better battery-life than Ivy Bridge, but it still won't be in the same league as ARM.

    For that, Intel is pinning it's hopes on Silvermount, the upcoming replacement for Atom, and the BayTrail platform. This is the one that is potentially an ARM 'killer' - or at least competitive.

    That CPU/Platform should allow building of a x86 Surface that provides acceptable performance and long battery-life.

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    Notice that details of 7" devices on Intel have leaked. Think this is the one for me. 😁

  • User profile image
    PopeDai

    , PaoloM wrote

    I have a Surface RT and had an Acer W700. The Atom on the Acer is 32 bits only and supports 2Gb of RAM. While it's possible to install VS2k12+WP7 dev tools, developing on that setup is practically impossible. Outlook is borderline viable if you disable a bunch of addons.

    Before I got my "new" ThinkPad W510 laptop from work I had to make-do with a 2006 ThinkPad X60t. It does not run VS2012 at an acceptable level of performance (though Windows 8 was okay, surprisingly). VS2012 is okay, and I'm told by the people who wrote it that it has lower system requirements compared to VS2010) but you're going to have to restrict yourself to ancient dev tools if you want to be productive - so if you only do .NET 3.5 stuff then you'll be fine with VS2008 on that Atom box, I guess, though given the RAM constraint you might have to run VS6... (non-ISO compliant C++, yay?)

    Battery life is definitely *not* the same. Maybe with Haswell it will improve, but for now ARM holds that crown easily.

    Unless you absolutely need to run some Win32 app that has no Metro equivalent, there's no contest on the overall usefulness of a ARM/RT tablet vs a Win8/Atom one.

    My personal Sony Vaio gets better standby battery life performance than Surface RT, surprisingly - especially in standby time. My Surface RT lasts about 4-5 days on standby, my iPad lasts about 2-3 weeks, and my Vaio also lasts almost a month. Why is this?

    That said, Surface RT + Type cover >> Surface RT + Touch cover Smiley

    Agreed. The touch cover is terrible with zero tactile feedback of a keypress. I don't know why the Touch Cover exists at all - they could easily have put in a simple membrane or dome keypress system for tactile feedback without it raising the price nor dimensions of the cover.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    , PopeDai wrote

    My personal Sony Vaio gets better standby battery life performance than Surface RT, surprisingly - especially in standby time. My Surface RT lasts about 4-5 days on standby, my iPad lasts about 2-3 weeks, and my Vaio also lasts almost a month. Why is this?

    Wait, your Vaio is in stand-by all that time? Windows hibernates after a few hours of stand-by by default, which means it uses no power. The guideline for stand-by power usage that seemed to work pretty well for my Vaio Z was about 1% per hour, so no way it would've lasted a month in stand-by mode (and I had the same model as you).

    When I was on the plane back from Seattle to Tokyo, an MS employee sat next to me who used his Surface RT to make a PowerPoint presentation. He used it during the entire flight, non-stop (about 10 hours straight), and it wasn't empty when he had to stow it for landing. In those conditions and with that workload, my Vaio Z would've lasted 4 hours tops, and that's only if you turn the screen brightness way down.

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