Coffeehouse Thread

45 posts

Back to School Preperations ...

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • Ian2

    I know things have been tough over here lately but ...

    tesco

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @Ian2: ROTF! That rack wasn't placed near the "Coming Soon! Windows 8 RT tablets"  display was it? Smiley

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
    Last modified
  • Blue Ink

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    @Ian2: ROTF! That rack wasn't placed near the "Coming Soon! Windows 8 RT tablets"  display was it? Smiley

    It's just another way to be on the bleeding edge.

  • Ion Todirel

    new graphing calculators!!! Big Smile

  • evildictait​or

    @Ion Todirel: Isn't that just an iPad nowadays?

  • Ian2

    I can hear it now.    "But Dad .. I need it for school"

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @evildictaitor: In my kids' school district they require calculators and disallow phones and other computing devices even though most phones and tablets have apps that meet or exceed when the calculators can do. I think they're afraid of cheating via SMS, browsing, etc.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
    Last modified
  • kettch

    @DeathByVisualStudio: Ha! As if a standard graphing calculator can't store huge amounts of cheating material anyway.

  • Maddus Mattus

    @DeathByVisualStudio: just make em take the test in a Faraday cage, problem solved.

  • Ian2

    , Maddus Mattus wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: just make em take the test in a Faraday cage, problem solved.

     

    Right, and next year Tesco just adds bolt cutters to their  'back to school'  range.

  • cheong

    @DeathByVisualStudio: In Hong Kong secondary schools, we can only use calculators model that were approved by HKEA (Hong Kong Examination Authority). The calcuators are examinated and will only get approved if the staffs there cannot find a way to use it to cheat.

    Because of this, except some subject that requires specialized calculators, most subjects in universities here also require to use HKEA approved ones.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
    Last modified
  • evildictait​or

    , Ian2 wrote

    *snip*

    Right, and next year Tesco just adds bolt cutters to their  'back to school'  range.

    Getting up in the exam, and cutting your way through the wires that are embedded in the walls to breach the faraday cage is more likely to be noticed by an invigilator than sending a SMS message under the table.

  • Maddus Mattus

    Why not allow them to cheat?

    Take the books with you, text with your friends,..

    This is how I solve problems now, why should it be any different at school?

    Why should I solve the problems on my own, when I can rely on the experience of my peers and they on mine?

  • cheong

    @Maddus Mattus:There are always some fundamentals they ought to remember.

    For example, it a programmer can't even remember basic syntax, imagine how much time they should spend on referencing books when coding.

    There's also lots of fundamental equations / laws on Mathematics or other subjects. If you can't remember them, while it's true that you can always find them from books, you're doomed to be an underperfomer.

    That said, some subjects (most in civil engineering discipline) are changing to "openbook exam" now. The new tests are more difficult because you can no longer gain points by reciting paragraphs (and it is good).

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
    Last modified
  • Maddus Mattus

    @cheong:

    Do you hire a programmer because he knows the syntax of c#, vb.net or javascript or do you hire him because he can solve your problems?

    Does it really matter if he uses C#. VB.Net or javascript to solve the issues?

    The syntax is not important, the way you solve problems is. And the only one who can teach you how to solve problems is yourself. Your teacher can help you discover these problem solving abilities, but you will have to find your own unique way. Otherwise you are just a copycat and never be as good as your teacher.

  • evildictait​or

    , Maddus Mattus wrote

    Why not allow them to cheat?

    Take the books with you, text with your friends,..

    This is how I solve problems now, why should it be any different at school?

    Why should I solve the problems on my own, when I can rely on the experience of my peers and they on mine?

    The problems you are trying to solve are mostly about finding a solution to the problem. Exams are mostly about trying to find an objective measure by which the pupil can be judged.

    If you come up with twenty exam-level questions and give them to two million students who are allowed to collaborate, chances are, you'll get twenty answers that are correct. But what you won't have is a way of being able to distinguish who was able to work out the answers from others who merely copied the answers from a forum dedicated to helping with the site.

    Worse still, you'd get parents "helping" their kids during the exam if they're allowed the cheat. Clever parents would just help the kids directly. Rich parents would help their kids by outsourcing to clever professionals. And poor/stupid parents - well, their kids would probably fail the exam.

    The only way to really rectify this is rather than letting the students "cheat", you let them have passive access to online reference material such as wikipedia.  But the problem here is that the Internet is always a two-way street. The very act of performing a search, for example, is an act that is sending information to the Internet. This means that effectively locking down the exam so that pupils can use the Internet but can't send the questions off to be answered by their rich/clever parents is impractical.

  • Maddus Mattus

    @evildictaitor:

    I agree.

    I put it a bit to black and white.

  • cheong

    , Maddus Mattus wrote

    @cheong:

    Do you hire a programmer because he knows the syntax of c#, vb.net or javascript or do you hire him because he can solve your problems?

    Does it really matter if he uses C#. VB.Net or javascript to solve the issues?

    If the projects in my company are all in C#, would it be desirable to hire someone who only know unmanaged C++ (remember, rules like constructor/destructor execution sequence and multiple inheritance differs)? How good do you think the one who knows C++ but doesn't understand javascript and DOM debug a web application?

    And a more difficult one, if the projects in my companys are only using MFC, would it be desirable to hire someone who only know C#/VB.NET?

    , Maddus Mattus wrote

    @cheong:

    The syntax is not important, the way you solve problems is. And the only one who can teach you how to solve problems is yourself. Your teacher can help you discover these problem solving abilities, but you will have to find your own unique way. Otherwise you are just a copycat and never be as good as your teacher.

    If you don't know the syntax, sometimes you can't read/debug code.

    Just imagine the shock when I see an one-liner that's a mix of LINQ plus anonymous functions. Books won't show you every example, and you can read it if the you can't understand the syntax, especially if some of the types involved in that query is coded as dynamic type. Possibly even Intellisense can't help you in the case.

    Now try add extension methods to the mix.

    Btw, the aim of traditional exams are to assess 1) how much you can remember from the lessons; 2) how well you can apply what you learnt. Calculators (or I should say, computers) that carries these information kind of defects the first aim.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
    Last modified

Comments closed

Comments have been closed since this content was published more than 30 days ago, but if you'd like to continue the conversation, please create a new thread in our Forums, or Contact Us and let us know.