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Bill's Biggest regret, winFS.

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  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    Bill just shared his biggest regret on Raddit. It is WinFS, something that has no standard interpretation in the company.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    @magicalclick: Which Bill? Link?

  • User profile image
    ZippyV
  • User profile image
    MasterPi
  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    , magicalclick wrote

    ...something that has no standard interpretation in the company.

    Wut?

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    Best quote ever:

    juturn: Windows 7 or Windows 8? Be honest Bill.

    thisisbillgates: Higher is better

    Khromasoul: Windows 2000 ftw!

     

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @PaoloM: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been under the impression that what was learned from WinFS is very much alive and well within the company. Just because the ideas weren't immediately productized doesn't mean it was a failure.

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    @kettch: Before joining Microsoft in 2006, I had a copy of WinFS beta 1 installed on my desktop at home. Plenty of bugs and perf was not there, but it was very obvious what WinFS was and what problem was trying to solve.

    Once I joined, I worked with some of the guys who actually built it.

    Saying that "has no standard interpretation in the company" is simply not true.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    , PaoloM wrote

    @kettch: Before joining Microsoft in 2006, I had a copy of WinFS beta 1 installed on my desktop at home. Plenty of bugs and perf was not there, but it was very obvious what WinFS was and what problem was trying to solve.

    Once I joined, I worked with some of the guys who actually built it.

    Saying that "has no standard interpretation in the company" is simply not true.

    I believe that "interpretation" comes from apparently coincidental post blog by a MS employee from the SQL Server team that watched WinFS flounder.

    So it would seem there are at least two interpretations of how WinFS was interpreted within MS. Smiley

    WinFS touched upon so many technologies that I can understand that those that worked on each chunk of it emphasized their particular piece of the pie when discussing it.

     

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    All the technologies and visions listed in the article were, in fact, in WinFS. The main problem is that it was such a big attempt that trying to reduce it to a sound bite or a quip would not have done it justice.

    Too early for its time, probably.

    Now, Hailstorm on the other hand... that was cool Smiley

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    , PaoloM wrote

    *snip*

    Wut?

    From the article I read, there are like ten different interpretations about WinFS. Some consider object oriented FS, some say it is relation database FS, some say it is XML database, and more. No one can really clearly say what it is. Or a better way to put is, everyone focused on their own implementation aspect of it, but, the technology from an use case point of view, is lacking. No one can't exactly say why we want it and how it can be better. And most of all, it is a research FS too early to be used widely.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    , DCMonkey wrote

    *snip*

    I believe that "interpretation" comes from apparently coincidental post blog by a MS employee from the SQL Server team that watched WinFS flounder.

    So it would seem there are at least two interpretations of how WinFS was interpreted within MS. Smiley

    WinFS touched upon so many technologies that I can understand that those that worked on each chunk of it emphasized their particular piece of the pie when discussing it.

    As an outsider, it was pretty clear to me what WinFS was; like PaoloM said, all those things.

    .NET was originally pictured as the new API for Windows, a replacement for COM, and just as WPF was meant to be the Presentation API, WinFS was meant to be the Storage API. Of course, like all of .NET, that meant making it updated, modern, object-oriented and glued into technologies becoming standard to .NET, including SQL and XML. XML would be the way metadata would be handled, because it would allow it to be self-descriptive. LINQ/SQL would be used to allow the user to traverse files based on metadata rather than physical location.

    For the press and the masses, this was often boiled down into saying "instant network wide search based on various metadata" because that would be one of the most practical uses of it.

    Some of the technology from WinFS has survived in other forms, but that doesn't mean WinFS is still alive, they just picked bones from its corpse.

  • User profile image
    PaoloM
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    exoteric

    Microsoft Semantic Engine looks interesting but haven't heard about it since the initial sneak-peak.

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