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Can someone PLEASE tell me why Windows file operations are still messed up?

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  • User profile image
    sysrpl

    From Windows Vista onwards file operations in explorer have been constantly been dodgy for me ... for many years, on different hardware. And Windows 8 seems the worst yet.

    Anecdotal examples:

    I just tried to copy some files (4580 to be exact) from my documents another folder and Windows just sat there displaying a "Caclulating File Copy Time" dialog for 10 minutes. I eventually gave up, opened a cmd prompt and type "copy * \path\to\put. Cmd did the copy in less than 20 seconds.

    Yesterday I needed to delete about 500 files. Selecting all files in explorer then pressing Shift+Delete (to bypass the recycle bin), Windows stood on a "Preparing to Delete Files" dialog for 20 seconds. I pressed cancel, opened a cmd prompt and typed "delete *". It took 1 second to do the delete that way.

    On my home media PC with Windows 8, every time I open my downloads folder (which has maybe 100 files), I have to wait 5-10 seconds while explorer considers showing me a list of files/folders (I have detail view on with filename, size, and date shown). If I navigate to a subfolder (a movie folder) and back up again, I have to wait another 5-10 seconds all over again. It's so damn annoying.

    I think a lot of these slow problems are related to MS trying to make some digital files uncopyable (DRM causes slow file copies, rename, or deletes), which given the problems I had working with explorer since Vista was released, seems like a very big mistake by MS.

    What are your thoughts/experience with slow explorer operations on Vista onwards?

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    , sysrpl wrote

    I think a lot of these slow problems are related to MS trying to make some digital files uncopyable (DRM causes slow file copies, rename, or deletes), which given the problems I had working with explorer since Vista was released, seems like a very big mistake by MS.

    Oh come on. Guttman's claims were made before he even *had* a copy of Vista.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    I don't have these problems you are talking about. Turn off your virusscanner and see if the problem persists.

  • User profile image
    Deactivated User

    Comment removed at user's request.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , ZippyV wrote

    I don't have these problems you are talking about. Turn off your virusscanner and see if the problem persists.

    Does using the command line bypass the virus scanner somehow or are you suggesting the virus scanner performs poorly when the operation is carried out by Windows Explorer but is faster when run from the command line? 

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , blowdart wrote

    *snip*

    Oh come on. Guttman's claims were made before he even *had* a copy of Vista.

    Who is Guttman?

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Does using the command line bypass the virus scanner somehow or ...

    Seriously?

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    Who is Guttman?

    Follow the links down. The whole "Vista file copies are slow due to DRM" stuff came from his original article, which he wrote without ever having installed it.

  • User profile image
    PopeDai

    , ZippyV wrote

    *snip*

    Seriously?

    It's a reasonable question.

    AV software monitors filesystem operations - usually with driver-level components or OS hooks, but there are some that install (or at least to *cough*Norton*cough*) shell extensions that only work when stuff is done through Explorer, but that's stuff like the Norton Protected Recycle Bin rather than AV that watches all file operations in Explorer.

     

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , ZippyV wrote

    *snip*

    Seriously?

    The OP said from the command line at it worked fine but from explorer it did not. You then suggested disabling the virus scanner. It's pretty easy to conclude you're saying that the virus scanner operates differently when the operation is carried out from the command line vs. from the explorer. All I was asking was for you to explain. So yeah, seriously.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , blowdart wrote

    *snip*

    Follow the links down. The whole "Vista file copies are slow due to DRM" stuff came from his original article, which he wrote without ever having installed it.

    Sorry I missed the link. While Guttman does seem like an idiot Microsoft did release a hotfix for slow file copies. If I recall there were a couple of Windows updates for that sort of thing with Vista. It doesn't explain W7 or W8 but there is some history there.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    Ian2

    It works on my machine (with Windows Defender)

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    Sorry I missed the link. While Guttman does seem like an idiot Microsoft did release a hotfix for slow file copies. If I recall there were a couple of Windows updates for that sort of thing with Vista. It doesn't explain W7 or W8 but there is some history there.

    Oh true, I used teracopy under vista which was much faster. But blaming it on DRM is probably the wrong answer.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    The OP said from the command line at it worked fine but from explorer it did not. You then suggested disabling the virus scanner. It's pretty easy to conclude you're saying that the virus scanner operates differently when the operation is carried out from the command line vs. from the explorer. All I was asking was for you to explain. So yeah, seriously.

    OR Explorer is the one that operates differently than copy/delete.exe by doing a lot more preparation (retrieving all the source files' properties, destination details) which causes the AV to do more work too.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    I've never had any problems with slow file copies in any version of Windows, not even Vista.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    , sysrpl wrote

    On my home media PC with Windows 8, every time I open my downloads folder (which has maybe 100 files), I have to wait 5-10 seconds while explorer considers showing me a list of files/folders (I have detail view on with filename, size, and date shown). If I navigate to a subfolder (a movie folder) and back up again, I have to wait another 5-10 seconds all over again. It's so damn annoying.

    This is definitely your virus scanner, which scans everything while Explorer is generating the thumbnails.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    , Sven Groot wrote

    I've never had any problems with slow file copies in any version of Windows, not even Vista.

    I think there was some kind of problem with Vista when copying files over the network when music was playing. Windows would reserve some system resources to keep the music playing resulting in the copy operation going a lot slower.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    , Ian2 wrote

    It works on my machine (with Windows Defender)

    Perhaps because Windows Defender detects the least amount of virus/malware?

    http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-8/janfeb-2013/

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