Coffeehouse Thread

21 posts

Do top level MS people at least listen to online journalists?

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  • dentaku

    We all know that the people at Microsoft who have the power to make a real difference tend to just ignore anything bad being said about their products and that complaining on C9 won't change anything. It's gone on for so long that they could never get anything done if they payed to much attention to it.

    SO... I wonder how many of these people at least read articles from reputable websites like WPCentral?
    Is the way to get our concerns heard simply to make sure that the people who actually have a chance of getting heard know what the majority of us (mostly tech geeks) care about most? Using people like WPCentral as a go-between?

    Daniel Rubino just wrote an article named "8 things that Microsoft needs to fix in Windows Phone 8 right now".
    He didn't come up with all those points by himself. He's a journalist (in the modern online kind of way) and his job involves listening to what the users of Microsoft products want and need, things most of us can agree should be done to keep the slow moving goliath company moving in the right direction.

    So... Complaining on C9 which is owned by a team at Microsoft just leads to other 9ers saying "stop complaining" and probably isn't going to help anyway because the higher ups stopped listening to complaints from geeks on forums a LONG time ago.

    Other than the forums at WPCentral, for example, where else is a good place for people to voice their concerns about weaknesses in MS products? Somewhere where the people running the site can spot trends on what the people want/need and then write about them in a more organized way that has a chance to get noticed.

    I know Long Zheng doesn't want to do a Win8 Taskforce website but a similar site would be nice too.

  • kettch

    Windows Phone actually has a UserVoice site. I'd say that is the best place to be heard right now. I did a quick check, and a lot of what's in that article already appears to be active items on UserVoice.

  • wkempf

    Even discussions here on C9 are fine and probably trickle into the MS conscious at leas a little. What's not useful is beating the same drum over and over. That's trolling, and poisons the community. Some complaint/constructive criticism not discussed yet? By all means, bring it here (though UserVoice is likely the better place to get the right attention).

    As for this article, like the article itself says, we know about half is stuff that's in the works and/or at least being discussed. One or two of the others aren't features but hard problems to solve (in particular the complaints about the Xbox Live games). Most of the rest seem like low priority things, even if I'd like them (for instance, there's no need for an X to close out apps, but it would make it slightly easier to deal with and I'd like that feature). So, going only by this list (and I have a lot of respect for Daniel and like WPCentral), there's not much urgency here, IMHO. I think there's more urgent things, to be quite honest.

  • kettch

    @wkempf: Unfortunately, even WPCentral suffers from the it's-a-slow-news-day-we-need-an-article-right-now syndrome. Normally, they are a pretty good source, so I'm inclined to let it slide...but yeah, nothing to see here.

  • elmer

    , wkempf wrote

    So, going only by this list (and I have a lot of respect for Daniel and like WPCentral), there's not much urgency here, IMHO.

    As already discussed in another thread, most users want dancing bunnies, and something missing from WP8 that is available on iOS or Android, will be seen as a deal-breaker. This doesn't need to make sense, it just is... like people choosing phones because they have the highest spec numbers, regardless of whether it's useful, important or even sensible.

  • evildictait​or

    It's easy to see problems. It's much harder to come up, write, test and deploy solutions.

  • kettch

    @evildictaitor: No it's not hard. Thousands of internet "experts" are quite confident that change 'x' is so easy it could be done in a day.

  • magicalclick

    @kettch: user voice doesn't work that great. For example, screenshot is terribly mapped with strange button combo, and people don't know how to complain about that when there are millions different ways to open a ticket. Many don't even realize the Bing Map turn-by-turn is gone. It is now stuck on basic language support and close the app. Not sure why no one make an app to overwrite all other background process and close itself. I do want such app because it is a hassle to turn off radio background process.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • kettch

    @magicalclick: If they don't have items for what you want, then create one. I'm betting that they read all of the items posted, not just the highly voted ones. If anything, the high ranked items allow them to ignore stupid suggestions all that much easier, while allowing more opportunity to read through the ones that might not be highly ranked but are still valid.

  • wkempf

    , elmer wrote

    *snip*

    As already discussed in another thread, most users want dancing bunnies, and something missing from WP8 that is available on iOS or Android, will be seen as a deal-breaker. This doesn't need to make sense, it just is... like people choosing phones because they have the highest spec numbers, regardless of whether it's useful, important or even sensible.

    Every single one of these could very well be a deal breaker. But most we know are at least be discussed, if they haven't already been fixed in code that just hasn't been delivered, while the rest are simply lower priority items than other more pressing concerns. I'm not dismissing anything here... Daniel is spot on that these are problems. I'm just not sure I (or Microsoft) consider them "top 10", and their definitely not worthy of much attention right now, other than ketch's point that it's a slow news day. If you pay any attention to WPCentral, all of these have been brought up before, so other than filler when there's nothing else to report, there was little reason for this blog post. *shrug*

  • magicalclick

    @kettch: I am not sure a voice of three votes should be considered at all. There are tons of those voices scattered all over the places. Sure it is our fault, that's basically what happened.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • dentaku

    I'm glad to see there actually IS someting like UserVoice.
    Thank you kettch.

    By the way...
    I used Daniel's article as an example because I know some people with the power to actually fix things listen to them. As for complaints about features, I think Windows Phone is handled by some pretty competent people that really care about their product.

    It's when it comes to Win8/RT that the stereotypical big bumbling Microsoft needs the most help from us users.

  • kettch

    @magicalclick: Just because an idea has 10,000 votes doesn't mean it's a good one and should be implemented. At the same time, just because an idea only has three votes, doesn't mean it is a bad one and shouldn't be implemented.

  • evildictait​or

    @kettch:

    Let's put it in perspective. There are a over a billion users of MS Windows. If only 10,000 of them are annoyed at any given feature, that's only 0.00001% of Windows' userbase. If everyone else is satisfied, that's a 99.99999% satisfaction rating.

  • dentaku

    , evildictait​or wrote

    @kettch:

    Let's put it in perspective. There are a over a billion users of MS Windows. If only 10,000 of them are annoyed at any given feature, that's only 0.00001% of Windows' userbase. If everyone else is satisfied, that's a 99.99999% satisfaction rating.

    Or the rest just don't care anymore or if they do they just feel powerless which is one more step towards Windows becoming irrelevant to the average consumer (who primarilly uses their computer for consuming).

     

  • Deactivated User

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  • magicalclick

    @kettch: I agree, except reading every single ticket among 10K threads without getting disoriented, is close to impossible, at least I know that's beyond my ability or beyond my teams ability as I don't know how to manage that. It would be extremely great if MS is capable of value 3 votes more than 1000 votes. I say capable because it may not have the capability to fulfill such goal.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • evildictait​or

    , jinx101 wrote

    *snip*

    Of course, there are so many that are frustrated but don't have time to complain to Microsoft or don't know how.  Example, my dad was so frustrated with Windows 8 on his new laptop that he asked me to "make it work like it used to".  He probably won't be contacting Microsoft himself (though I go an ear full Tongue Out). 

    That huge user base also is split over so many versions of Windows so the number would be much smaller for newer versions of Windows.  Windows XP is still hovering at around 40% of the Windows market.  Those are users that either have decided they don't want to upgrade and face problems they know about (or are content with what they have). 

    For the record, Windows XP is about 20% of the market, and Windows8 has sold 40m licences (as of Nov 2012), so this isn't a small market.

    Also, the data that really changes Microsoft's mind is the data they pull back via the Customer Experience Program. Instead of asking 10,000 already dissatisfied to the point of posting users whether they like Windows8 (which they won't, since if you like it, why would you blog about it - it's an OS and therefore boring), Microsoft can just measure how all of the users actually use it.

    For example, your father's dissatisfaction is not recorded in UserVoice (because he falls into the category of people for whom blogging about stuff or writing it online simply isn't a course of action he would consider). But his dissatisfaction and confusion is recorded in CEP, and that means that his confusion holds vastly more weight than every viewpoint from someone who doesn't use Windows8, and exactly as much weight as anyone who either likes or dislikes Windows and is technical enough to say so loudly online.

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