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Does Silverlight 5 still run on OS X?

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  • User profile image
    hordak3000

    Will the new 3d capabilites also be available in Silverlight for the mac? Are there infos about that yet?

  • User profile image
    rhm

    I haven't seen any definitive statement, but I don't see why not.

  • User profile image
    felix9

    XNA Graphics API is based on D3D, so they must have a port of D3D in the Platform Adaptation Layer in CoreCLR if they do support Mac, that's a lot of work.

  • User profile image
    rhm

    The differences are actually pretty small when you look at what the API supports in SL5. People really need to get over the whole 'OpenGL and DirectX are different worlds' thing.

    If you want to see what's involved, check out the source of MonoGame which is the Mono project's implementation of the XNA framework on a variety of platforms

  • User profile image
    felix9

    apparently 3D for Mac is not in this beta, and according to Aaron Oneal, MS 'understand the importance of the need and are actively looking into this', whatever that means.
    http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/MIX/MIX11/MED06

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    , felix9 wrote

    apparently 3D for Mac is not in this beta, and according to Aaron Oneal, MS 'understand the importance of the need and are actively looking into this', whatever that means.
    http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/MIX/MIX11/MED06

    Silverlight 6 Smiley

  • User profile image
    fanbaby

    , felix9 wrote

    apparently 3D for Mac is not in this beta, and according to Aaron Oneal, MS 'understand the importance of the need and are actively looking into this', whatever that means.
    http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/MIX/MIX11/MED06

    Wow, just wow. I have written this prophecy many times :

    RE x-platformness, if you believe for one second that if SL will succeed, the mac port will be held up to par with Windows, i have a few bridges i'd like you to see.

     

    I didnt ( a ) take long ( b ) even wait for the "if it secceeded" part.

  • User profile image
    pmonteil

    @felix9:given the level of abstraction offered by the XNA object model, building a version of it on top of OpenGL should not be very difficult. The only difficulty I see relates to shaders: SL5 seems to require precompiled HLSL ones, but OpenGL includes a GLSL compiler: it would be easy to provide equivalet shaders in the two forms...

  • User profile image
    PerfectPhase

    @hordak3000: The whole PInvoke thing in SL5 seems to me far more likly to be a cross platform killer than the 3D, as it will be down to ISV dev's to actually make it work, and in most cases that will mean it will work on windows and you'll get a second rate experience on OSX or most likely it'll just crash as no checks will have been added, Works-On-My-Machine. 

  • User profile image
    battlebottle

    I find it more or less impossible to beleive they would have added a 3D API to silverlight if they weren't completely confident that it would be 100% compatible with OSX. If silverlight has any advantage over HTML it's taht it can be counted on to run consistantly across supported platforms.

    I would not worry about the mac silverlight beta being late, I understand the silverlight 4 beta for mac was also a few months late but the RTMs came out the same time.

  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    I would like to think that, but the speaker in the video felix linked sure didn't seem ready to commit to anything. My guess is there might be an internal struggle over this currently.

  • User profile image
    battlebottle

    @contextfree`:

    Form the video it sounds a lot more like he just didn't feel he had permission to talk about it. That seemed to happen with a lot of people at mix even though those details had already been given by others.

    Could be wrong there all the same, but I'd still be shocked if mac didn't have full support for silverlight 5 features. I won't be losing any sleep over it personally.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    , hordak3000 wrote

    Will the new 3d capabilites also be available in Silverlight for the mac? Are there infos about that yet?

    Silverlight as a platform for web application development is dead. It will be strung-out as a "Lite" WPF experience for Windows Phones and as a presentation layer for CE devices.

    Microsoft has put emphasis back on W3C-endorsed web application development, you don't need proprietary platforms anymore. Flash is dying as we speak: Flash now being used solely for delivering web-video (which you can do with HTML5 video), web-games, and adverts. And I see a lot more adverts than I see web games worth playing. I have FlashBlock on my Firefox installation and I've never thought twice about it. I'm also looking forward to my iPad 2 arriving next week.

    Remember that Silverlight and WPF were born in 2003 during the Longhorn hype (and the misguided belief that you can trust ISVs to create beautiful, consistent applications using a "revolutionary" UI framework), before Firefox had even broken out on the scene. I'm sure the plans for WPF/E (later renamed Silverlight) were hatched at the same time, along with the realisation that they would have to create a Mac-based player/runtime for it, and also allow a Linux player too.

    Microsoft's mistake was doing the Macintosh player in-house and letting the Mono people do their own Linux port with their "blessing" and not much else (well... besides test cases). It makes more sense to get Mono to develop the Macintosh port (partly because OS X is similar to *nix) but also because it leaves Microsoft free to empower Silverlight by themselves, and by giving proper support to Mono it means we can react with a straight-face when they say it's a cross-platform environment (like how Java truly was when Sun allowed Microsoft and Apple to develop their own VMs).

     

  • User profile image
    AndrewSN

    Microsoft is a OS-centric company. It will never focus on cross-platform software or tools.

    Silverlight killed two or three birds with one stone. The implementation of WPF gave them good ideas.

    I think they planned years ago Silverlight as a platform for Windows phone(WP7). 

    Quickly releasing managed Silverlight for desktop was a preparation for WP7. Making it run on MacOSX and Linux, thus make it look like it's a cross-platform RIA based on .NET, Visual Studio and WPF concepts, brought the right amount of attention from desktop software writers to adopt it and use it. The community grew fast.

    Due to ease of installation, built-in update capabilities, Silverlight is a great software tool for writing some types of Windows software. It happens to run on Mac OSX and somehow Linux too, that's even cooler.

    But again, Microsoft is a company built and living based on the Windows OS domination. We all know that. They don't want nor need to focus on writing cross-platform tools. Why would they? Ultimately, their target is to write software which runs on Windows.

    If we want a Silverlight-like platform, we can only hope it gets created by a software company beside Microsoft.

    From using .NET cross-platform perspective , Mono project is a good start. But their approach is different. From what I saw they don't offer a unified platform \ API for multiple platforms. While you do take advantage of using .NET and C#, you have to use platform's specific API(one for iPhone and one for Android).

    In the same time, there is this new kid in town, called HTML5. It will be interesting to see how Microsoft will handle it, from the development tools perspective. HTML5 opens some very interesting cross-platform software creation posibilities. 

    Microsoft is very good at creating software creation tools but I don't think they intend to give developers good HTML5 dev tools. If there's something, it must have something to do with Windows. Like ASP.NET. I mean, it won't be something for creating desktop applications for example. It won't be something awesome like a tool to transform Silverlight to HTML5, like Adobe did with Flash(not sure to what extent though).

     

     

     

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    I think they planned years ago Silverlight as a platform for Windows phone(WP7). 

    Quickly releasing managed Silverlight for desktop was a preparation for WP7. Making it run on MacOSX and Linux, thus make it look like it's a cross-platform RIA based on .NET, Visual Studio and WPF concepts, brought the right amount of attention from desktop software writers to adopt it and use it. The community grew fast.

    Windows Phone 7 was created to fight the iPhone and its smooth, fluid (and I say 'magical') UX. The state of Windows Mobile right up to 2010 (3 years after the iPhone came out) a is evidence of this.

    Silverlight was created as a competitor to Flash, nothing more. Microsoft saw the rise of Adobe AIR as a threat similar to Java. However Microsoft never really "got it", making it available on WP7 was just a nice co-incidence, I don't believe there was ever a 'great plan' like this.

    I'd like to compare Silverlight to Flash for a while:

    Flash was released (as FutureSplash) in 1996 and became a first-class replacement for Director Shockwave in 1999 where it first saw wide use on the web. By 2001 Flash was here to stay.

    Silverlight has been around since 2007 (although WPF has since 2004). It is now 2011, some 4 years later. I'm still not seeing millions of websites using Silverlight unlike how they used Flash in the early-00s.

    Only Microsoft.com and a handful of American TV news websites. I don't see Silverlight on NewGrounds or AlbinoBlackSheep. It isn't a compelling platform and I don't see how it has any advantages over Flash for web design (not that I'd ever advocate using Flash either, but that's besides the point).

  • User profile image
    AndrewSN

    You don't see much Silverlight because like on any other market, once there is somebody who's good, it's hard for a new competitor to take market share, unless there is something very good which the existing competitor doesn't have it. And Silverlight doesn't have something which Flash hasn't I think, unfortunately.

    Microsoft was late with Silverlight. It has always been late with phones too. And a web-browser too.

    As someone said "Microsoft earns too much money from the OS". 

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