Coffeehouse Thread

223 posts

E3 Smackdown

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  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , MasterPie wrote

    *snip*

    I think it's the case of the vocal minority who do not represent the entire population. I have a lot of self-proclaimed "pro-gamers" friends who don't care about these policies, except for maybe the internet requirement which would bar them from bringing the console on vacation. Two of them already preordered.

    Ah the "vocal minority" excuse. That excuse is about as qualified as the concept of the vocal minority itself. Let's not get into the "well I have two brothers, six friends, a dog, and two cats who all say..." argument all over again.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • MasterPi

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    Ah the "vocal minority" excuse. That excuse is about as qualified as the concept of the vocal minority itself.

    Because the better explanation is that people say one thing and do the exact opposite.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , MasterPie wrote

    *snip*

    Because the better explanation is that people say one thing and do the exact opposite.

    You mean like the "No Compromises" catch phrase Sinofsky coined?

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • ScanIAm

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    You mean like the "No Compromises" catch phrase Sinofsky coined?

    Corporations are people, my friend, but marketers aren't.

  • wastingtime​withforums

    , ScanIAm wrote

    *snip*

    If your powers of observation are so damn great then why don't you just short Microsoft?  Any dummy can complain about a company knowing that nobody really cares one way or the other.

    But if you want us to take you seriously, Beer, jump back into the market and put some actual faith behind all of your blather.

    Upset fanboy is upset.

    Maybe I have done exactly that, how do you know I didn't?

    Since posting the online credentials to my online bank account/depot would be a brainless insanity of the highest order (apart from the criminal insanity of it, banks can and do terminate your account for doing this), there is no way to prove that.

    If I say I won't short Microsoft, you would say I don't stick to my guns, if I say I did it, you would say I lie. If I would post a screenshot of the depot, you would probably say it's photoshopped or manipulated (many banks offer a demo account with toy money, - otherwise it looks like a real account. So it's easy to fabricate such a screenshot). Even a video recording would prove nothing, since there are demo accounts that require a custom pre-registered login - they look exactly like real accounts but still operate with toy money too. And exactly this is apparently your modus operandi, as we can see with the beer-accusation, where you dismissed my evidence against your claim and escalated the accusation even further. And you continue to dismiss it, even though I've said that the admins are free to compare the IP-addresses. So of course you would play the same game here.

    It's an unwinnable pseudo-challenge.

    If you're out of arguments or have nothing else to say, then just leave the thread, but don't come up with preschool-shenanigans to stifle discussion.

  • Jaz

    If any of this: http://pastebin.com/uCmdh9jB is true, then I can see where Microsoft are going and I like the story.

    I'm quite likely to buy an XBONE since I spend a lot more time watching shows on my 360 than i do watching TV.  I want to see what the european story is, especially where I have a freesat tuner built into my TV rather than via an external box.

  • Bas

    @Jaz: if that's true they need to take that story, clean up the swearing and the "dude sick bro" language, and push it out as a press release.

  • Bas

    Also if this is really about games costing less than $59, and Sony really can't do that because of resales, then I have no idea why Microsoft aren't announcing game prices right now, even if they're just planned and not definitive. That'll go a long way justifying the price difference with the PS4.

  • wastingtime​withforums

    , Jaz wrote

    If any of this: http://pastebin.com/uCmdh9jB is true, then I can see where Microsoft are going and I like the story.

    There is nothing in there that hasn't been answered a dozen times on the internet and on this thread.

    Even on Neowin, the friendliest site to Microsoft, there are lots people who see through it call it BS in the comments, and we're talking about Neowin here!

    http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous-xbox-engineer-explains-drm-and-microsofts-xbox-one-intentions

    If this doesn't even convince the Neowin people...

    Post from another blog covering most of the Steam-arguments of the pastebin-guy (basically a condensed version of what I've said here before):

    I bet MS can't believe the furore they've created with the Xbox 1.

    Take the used games restrictions for example. The Official PlayStation Used Game Instructional Video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA has had 10 million views and 80,000 comments, the Reddit community is up in arms, and Google searches for xbox news were overwhelmingly negative.

    I think their line of reasoning with used games was that Steam on the PC was successful and didn't allow used games, so why not make more money by restricting this? With every disk sold hey make a profit. They are also in bed with EA who probably encouraged them. Also, if they allowed game disks to be fully installed to the console, and played without a disk in the caddy, this was a natural conclusion, as game disks merely became means of transferring data, not a symbol of ownership.

    What they forgot about is:

    (A) Console game disks have traditionally been transferable, breaking this tradition was dangerous for consumer opinion. Strangely, people do like to sell, borrow and lend games easily.

    (B) Steam is very different, as it has traditionally not used install disks, although some PC game DVDs now require Steam. Also, the PC is an open platform, not curated by MS, so Steam is a choice rather than a necessity, although it may be required for some games. [there are also direct Steam-competitors on the platform: Origin, Gog etc.]  There has been a slow transition to Steam-type DRM. There is a large tradition of discounting with Steam. There is a lot of trust with Steam. There are multiple vendors for downloads, even if Steam DRM is required. On the PC piracy is easier if you hate Steam DRM. People do not buy PCs mainly to play games. And other factors I've probably missed.

    (C) Console games have traditionally been more expensive than the PC, but this factored in the possibility of resale. Would the cost of game disks of the xbox one be lowered? Doesn't seem likely in the short run.

    And all this is merely about used games. They have made many other poor decisions, e.g. online required, kinect required, higher cost, regional restrictions, poor name, uninspiring design, poor conference presentation, disdain for backward compatibility, etc..  I still expect xbox one to be successful, but these type of decisions will cost them millions in sales.

  • MasterPi

    , Bas wrote

    , then I have no idea why Microsoft aren't announcing game prices right now, even if they're just planned and not definitive.

    If true, they're probably waiting so that they can make it a big announcement. Especially a good idea to let the dust settle from the DRM news. They also can't just announce it, they have to SHOW that prices will be lowered, and I'm not sure that they can do that with existing titles (MGS can't suddenly lower its price for one console, can they?)

    Also, the first line sort of says it all...

    "The thing is we suck at telling the story"

    Yeah...you guys sorta do. BUT, you're getting better.

  • Dr Herbie

    @MasterPie: I agree -- they're probably keeping their powder dry until the nerd-rage dies down and people have started to adjust mentally to the DRM.

    If they announce the prices now they just negate some of the negativity faster, but if they wait until the negativity dies down by itself (which it is likely to do based on past experience) then they can use the price announcements to create positivity (rather that just cancelling our some negativity).

    Herbie

  • wastingtime​withforums

    Similar hopes were raised and squashed with all the recent Microsoft blunders. "Why are you making such a huge deal about the forced start screen? Windows 8 is still in beta, do you think they will risk alienating all these desktop users?" ...

    And the recent backtracks still resulted in worse deals than the previous offerings, take the Office 2013 licensing for example: They have backtracked from the one-computer-forever thing, but the price hike (Office 2013 installable only one PC, instead of three in the previous version) is still in place. Office 365 is no true successor to the old licensing and often times more expensive in the long run than the old scheme.

    I would be very surprised if the Xbox One games would be less pricey than the P4 equivalents. DRM led usually to the opposite direction, even in the case of Steam: Bargain bin deals at retailers for PC games were (often still are) usually cheaper than the Steam deals.

    And even today, boxed games are often cheaper on Amazon than their download-only equivalents on Steam, especially older titles, and I am not even talking about the second-hand resellers there.

  • ScanIAm

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    *snip*

    Upset fanboy is upset.

    Maybe I have done exactly that, how do you know I didn't?

    I don't, but honestly, I don't give a crap either.

    I'm going to invent a kickstarter like service that will allow people to contribute 'attention' to folks who seem to be unable to function without it.  The bargain will be that once you've garnered your limit, you have to go away.

     

  • MasterPi

    @ScanIAm: +++

  • sqlerror

     Xbox One game prices will be the same as PS4 games. MS game division is being ran by business people who have no idea how games industry works. When Peter Moore was on the helm, the guy understood the gaming community, the people in charge now have no clue. Sony on the other hand has learned a hard lesson after PS3, a lesson that MS may not be able to learn from with the XBOX One. 

    MS thinks they're copying Nintendo's success with Wii, but Wii was a failure. Software on it didn't sell, the platform died earlier than other platforms, and the market that bought it would quickly dismiss it.

    Make no mistake, Xbox One will eventually fail. The media will simply not allow it to succeed even if it somehow manages to get better games than other platforms. There's too much negativity around it but not only from gaming sites, but from developers' sites as well. The question is, how big of a failure it will be.  

  • wastingtime​withforums

    Yikes, now they have pissed-off the military:

    http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030/New-Xbox-sin-against-all-service-members

    The military is the largest employer in the USA and heavily composed of 18-35 year old males, the primary target group for video games. That's a customer that no console maker should make enemies with. Pissing them off is stooooopid.

    But oh well, pissing off developers is also something that no software company should do, yet Microsoft did exactly that with their WPF and Silverlight policy, or even the Visual Studio 2012 release. Seriously - that version caused so much controversy over something so easy to fix, yet MS took instead the route to alienate developers, in times when they need them most, than moving one iota.

    Restricting WP8 development to Windows 8 - Given the bottom-pit marketshare of Windows Phone compared to Android and iOS, Microsoft should make it possible to develop on XP for it! Even if would cost millions to make it happen.

    Android is doing exactly that:

    http://www.cnx-software.com/2011/01/03/installing-android-sdk-on-windows-xp-hello-world-application/

    http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html

    Android  is the market leader, they don't need to offer the option, but they did. Yet MS is restricting development for their underdog phone offering only to their most controversial OS of all time. Niche marketshare, yet monopoly arrogance.

    It also begs the question why Google, a third party, is so easily able to make their Android SDK tools available for all Windows versions since XP, while Microsoft seems to have such severe problems supporting anything other than 8. No matter whether it's because of technical challenges, politics, or some kind of insane marketing approach. Any of these reasons is pathetic compared to the competiton, given that MS is the first party of the OS, the SDK, the development IDE and WP.

    Now the usual suspects can call me troll of course, doesn't change the fact something is seriously wrong with the "NuMicrosoft" style. My viewpoint is surely not fringe, especially outside this forum.

    Microsoft is now even creating controversy outside of tech circles. Quote from Navytimes:

    "Do I think Microsoft is going to change?" writes Hruska in a recent post.
    "Honestly, no. The remarks that've come out to date paint a picture of a company
    that's so drunk on its own Kool-Aid, they aren't listening to outside criticism
    or commentary any longer."

  • Ray7

    @wastingtimewithforums:

    Microsoft Xbox exec said:

    "When I read the blogs and thought about who's really the most impacted, there was a person who said, "Hey, I'm on a nuclear sub.' I don't even know what it means to be on a nuclear sub, but I've got to imagine that it's not easy to get an Internet connection. Hey, I can empathize. If I was on a sub, I'd be disappointed."

    ??Perplexed??

    Still, I love the idea that having spent the day patrolling a war zone, US Marines like nothing better than kicking back, switching on the console and blowing s**t up.

     

     

  • wastingtime​withforums

    Oh LOL, so much for the cheaper prices compared to the competition in return for the DRM-overkill:

    http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/14/4431720/microsoft-selling-xbox-one-first-party-games-for-59-99

    Microsoft will sell its first-party games on Xbox One for $59.99, the same price as most new releases on the current generation of consoles, a representative for the company confirmed to Polygon.

    "I can confirm that Microsoft Studios games on Xbox One will be $59.99 (MSRP)," the representative wrote.

    ...

    That's the same price at which PlayStation 4 games will launch, Sony America president and CEO Jack Tretton hinted at during a CNBC interview following the console's February reveal event. "We're going to welcome free-to-play models, games from $.99 up to those $60 games," Tretton said during a CNBC interview following the console's reveal. We've reached out to Sony to confirm that its first-party games will be released at $59.99, which Tretton's comments seem to imply.

    That's also the same price that several retailers, including Amazon and Gamestop, have been listing for first-party Xbox One and PS4 game pre-orders following the two companies' Monday E3 press conferences.

    Premium price for premium DRM!

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