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Faulty update time! (And again, W10..)

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  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    And yet another example why Windows 10's updater is a disaster in the making.

    I've had again crashes with IMAP and Outlook 2010. Microsoft knows this issue but doesn't list all updates which may do this:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3061014

    So anyway, it crashes again, and this time KB3054976 is the perpetrator (released this patch day, and not on the above list). When I have it on, I get a crash, when I uninstall it the crashes are gone. It's reproducable.

    Now of course, after I uninstall it, it appears again on Windows Update. So I have to hide it. On Windows 10 this is not possible anymore. At best you can disable WU completely through gpedit.msc (and only on pro you have the built-in tools to do this), which is a very sub-optimal soluton to say the least.

    So again, tell me, how is Windows 10 an improvement in this area? Once you get such a situation (not exactly uncommon!) you're completey FUBARed on Windows 10: You either live with crashes (in this case on every Outlook start-up!) or you have to deactivate Windows Update completely! So much for the improved security the forcing and crippling of WU W10 brings.

    Well OK, I can think of another "solution" in such case on W10: You save the working files and kludge up some batch file that copies them over the faulty ones Windows Update shoves up on every reboot. What a bizarre result of Microsoft "simplifying things".

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    Switch to Win10 Email. :P. Anyway, it is strange how it can crash Outlook. Pretty bad there.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums
  • User profile image
    cheong

    @magicalclick: It's not the first time when Office having security related updates, it'll crash certain Add-ins.

    Afterall, there are so many Add-ins on the market... Antivirus, Translators, CRM/ERP, Workflow (Those which drain approve/reject response to system through VBA forms), Social Apps, or even in-house SI components. There's no possibility Microsoft can test every single one of them.

    It's one thing having fast/slow lane cannot help to solve.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    Was this crash on Windows 10 build 10240?

    Do we know that the update policy for Windows 10 also applies to non-Windows applications like Office?

  • User profile image
    cheong

    @bondsbw: No. It's just "an ordinary Office update crashed Outlook, on Win7 I can uninstall and hide the update, but what if I'm on Win10 where there will no longer be UI to allow me doing it" type of question.

    And regarding whether "the update policy for Windows 10 also applies to non-Windows applications like Office", the policy is not but the UI is.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    @cheong:  "What if" questions are fine, but like I've said in other threads, you can't judge Windows 10's policy by faults in previous versions.  Windows 10 may be managed differently because the policy is different.

    Or maybe not.  If/when this actually happens, throw as much feedback to Microsoft and make them answer for it.

    But speculation is worthless.

  • User profile image
    cheong

    @bondsbw: Since there's less than a week till Win10 is Gold, I don't think they'll entertain such request now.

    Let's wait and see if they'd be willing to change on the next update fail(s).

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    @cheong: I suspect bondsbw is simply noting what the Window 8 experience should have taught us. MS is not listening (to our kind) and is not interested in our input. They are going a different direction.

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    @cheong:  That might be true in the old way of doing Windows.  Microsoft has stated time and time again that Windows 10 is not finished and will never be finished.  They could issue an update to change this behavior if they want.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , bondsbw wrote

    @cheong:  "What if" questions are fine, but like I've said in other threads, you can't judge Windows 10's policy by faults in previous versions.

    You got it wrong: On Windows 7 this is fixable, on Windows 10 it's not fixable. At least not without some crazy workarounds or completely killing Windows Update.

    , bondsbw wrote

    But speculation is worthless.

    What's there to speculate? I've seen Windows 10 myself - you cannot hide/reject updates there, Office ones included. That's no speculation.

    If I would get a similar buggy patch in Office or Windows on W10 instead of W7, I would be FUBARed. And I know this kind of things will happen, because I doubt Microsoft's programmers will be blessed by the programming god between now (when they pushed another faulty Office update out) and the time W10 arrives (in a week).

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    @wastingtimewithforums:  You missed my point.  My point is whether 10 will be managed differently such that the problematic updates won't cause the same kind of issues that make people turn them off.  In other words, they may use more rigorous testing and the insider preview program to catch problems before they go out.  More is at stake now with the forced update policy.

    And I still haven't seen anything that indicates whether non-Windows updates will go through the same process, in-line with Windows updates.  I'm hoping not.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    , bondsbw wrote

    And I still haven't seen anything that indicates whether non-Windows updates will go through the same process, in-line with Windows updates.  I'm hoping not.

    I suspect that the point here is that the UI for controlling this has been removed from W10, so it doesn't much matter if it's a Windows or other Microsoft update.

  • User profile image
    cheong

    @bondsbw:And btw, I think MS Office is not covered by any of the "Insider program" as of now.

    These updates will get much less rigid testing than Win10 when pushed out.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    And so it begins:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/25/windows-10-automatic-update-problems/

    Windows Update in W10 pushes faulty nVidia drivers out which are unstoppable/unhidable and already brick PCs.

    Dreadful Drivers

    The flaw revolves around Nvidia graphics cards with users taking to Nvidia's forums to report Windows Update is automatically installing new drivers which break multimonitor setups, SLI (dual card) configurations and can even stop PCs booting entirely which pushes Windows 10 into its emergency recovery mode.

    "Please pull these off Windows update!!!" writes Nvidia forum poster slycoder. "It makes my second monitor not work and lots of flickering! Please. I roll back and Windows Update reinstalls them :/"

    "I second this," agrees ZabaZu. "For multi screen users, that driver is flat out broken and it is beyond annoying that windows auto updates to it."

    Now that's bad and I absolutely knew this stuff would happen. It was bound to happen. It was 100% certain.

    Given Windows 10 updates cannot be stopped the most obvious solution is to uninstall third party driver management and hand it all over to Windows Update to avoid clashes. This potentially simplifies matters by providing an all-in-one update service, but it does mean taking away control from specialist companies over their own products.

    A second approach is something many readers mentioned in comments on my previous post when Microsoft confirmed Windows 10 updates were unstoppable: hack it.

    Initially this might work, but in April senior Microsoft product marketing manager Helen Harmetz said during a Windows 10 webinar that users who forcibly stopped any Windows 10 updates would eventually have their security updates cut off. Microsoft has yet to confirm this brutal enforcement policy in official documentation, but if this is the path it chooses that would ultimately make any form of update hack pointless.

    Wait wait.. what?

    Are they completey out of their mind ?!?!?!?!?!!!

    Does that mean if I stop Windows Update by disabling its service for a while or use the gpedit.msc solution, Microsoft might punish me by stopping all Windows updates in the future? Microsoft is aware that paying customers are not their inmates?

    Sick! No really, * THIS. Hardcore Stallmanism was sane compared to NuMicrosoft. This takes it way too far. This is not funny anymore.

  • User profile image
    androidi

    @bondsbw: W10 "Never finished" Okay now I really regret selling my spare unopened W7 box too early. It was only going for 2x what I paid, maybe 3x would have been possible in a year.

     

     

     

     

  • User profile image
    figuerres

    WOW....

    so I have a 3 monitor setup with dual NVidia cards.

    I started my system and saw issues, had to shutdown it was bad.

    turned off two displays and re-started, windows booted, back to a normal display.

    turned on second display and let windows see it. ok.... tuern on third display - same deal.

    ok all better now.

    was that a pain; yes.

    should it be fixed; yes.

    was it the end of the world; no

    was my pc bricked; no

    rightfully a lot of users are angry that it happened .... but even with windows xp/vista/7 etc... driver updates to video cards often need a reboot and some fussing with the display.

     

  • User profile image
    cheong

    @figuerres: You don't get it.

    This time you're lucky that you found a workaround, but lots of driver problem have no workaround for normal users.

    Say, if this time the problem occurs for users have dual display card connected by SLI only, should you instruct user to take out the display card, with the risk of voiding the warranty, in order to boot it?

    In the old times you can just uninstall the update and hide it and it'll be fine, but now you can't do that because on your next reboot, the Windows Update will automatically reinstall the problematic update.

    This is a real issue to be addressed.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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