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How to run 32 bit Windows with 8 GB so that PageFile is located in upper half of 8 GB?

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  • androidi

    How to run 32 bit Windows with 8 GB so that PageFile is located in upper half of 8 GB?

    I have 32 bit Windows installed for some specific reasons but I find that without pagefile the memory runs out too soon and I don't want the pagefile on SSD and I don't want it on HDD either. I want it in the un-used 4 GB that's after the 32 bit address space.

    How do I do that?

     

    e: I don't mind if the page file is also written to the HDD simultaneously as long as it isn't read from there as that's when I find the system to crawl, not when Windows writes to it.

  • evildictait​or

    32-bit consumer-editions of windows won't use physical memory above 4GB. What you are asking for can't be done.

    If you have more than 4GB of physical memory, upgrade to 64-bit Windows. 64-bit Windows is faster and you can still run 32-bit programs. The only thing you lose by upgrading is you will no longer be able to run 16-bit programs natively in Windows without a VM (but you probably weren't doing that anyway, right?)

  • androidi

    Quick googling found an answer but it may be brand specific. This page doesn't say it but I heard from another forum that this does exactly what I suggested. Too bad I don't have ASRock mb. Atleast now I know what brand to get for my Haswell setup. I'm getting a brand whose engineers say "can be done":

    http://www.asrock.com/feature/xfast/xfastram/index.asp

    XFast RAM is designed to allow users to manage the wasted memory space under Windows® 32-bit OS*, improve web surfing experiences, boost application's speed 5 times faster and reduce the frequency of accessing SSDs or HDDs to extend their lifespan.

    evildictaitor > ... can't be done.

     

  • evildictait​or

    Your computer will not allocate physical memory above 4GB it to drivers or to programs that are running. This means that any driver using that physical memory (e.g. as a RAM disk) is effectively only storing data there - it's not being properly used by the system.

    The only way this driver can be working is by circumventing the Windows physical page allocator - which makes your entire system unstable.

    And anyway, these solutions always seem to miss the key point: The entire purpose of a 64-bit OS is to solve the 4GB limit on virtual and physical memory.

    Using unsupported and potentially unstable/slow drivers to get the performance that a 64-bit OS will just give you for free seems perverse and stubborn. What possible downside is there for upgrading your OS to a 64-bit? It's not like your 8GB system won't have 64-bit drivers, since it must have come with them when you bought it!

  • figuerres

    , androidi wrote

    How to run 32 bit Windows with 8 GB so that PageFile is located in upper half of 8 GB?

    I have 32 bit Windows installed for some specific reasons but I find that without pagefile the memory runs out too soon and I don't want the pagefile on SSD and I don't want it on HDD either. I want it in the un-used 4 GB that's after the 32 bit address space.

    How do I do that?

     

    e: I don't mind if the page file is also written to the HDD simultaneously as long as it isn't read from there as that's when I find the system to crawl, not when Windows writes to it.

    the page file is on DISK STORAGE the last time I recall ... so how can you "put in in memory" anywhere ???   OK so you create a ram disk .... and now when that runs out of space you are back with the same problem ....  a very poor answer if you ask me ....

  • androidi

    Like I said in the op, when writing to pagefile in 32 bit OS, write to both the inaccessible (over 4GB) memory, and disk. Only read from the ram disk. When the ram disk is full, then purge least frequently used pages from the ram disk and read them back from disk only when needed. Also you could provide some notification that the ram disk is full and further access will be slower.

    This would be great improvement over the current situation with 32 bit OS where most of the memory is not used and the system crawls after opening couple dozen IE windows, leaving them open and then coming back to them later which I have verified to be due to pagefile access. I very rarely have needed more than 8 GB of memory during using 64 bit Win 7 so I know this issue is solved well enough with ramdisk pagefile for this use case.

    re: the Problem of programs being limited to what they can access in Windows 7 32 bit.

    This isn't really that big problem. Few programs I have use more than 2 GB of memory. And those that do, can use said memory without problems with either a 32 bit server kernel or by patching the Windows 7 32 bit kernel by changing one or two bytes, enabling larger allocations. I've seen couple games that crash in consumer Windows and work in server Windows because of their texture allocation being simplistic. Though it may be also that ASLR introduction has something to do with this, but I'll test that theory ASAP to see if it ends the random crashes on level loads of same map. (eg. Run game, load map, crash. Run game again, load same map, no crash)

     

    edit: I found on SuperUser comments that DataRam RamDisk and SuperSpeed RamDisk Plus can both allow use of the un-available ("upper") memory in 32 bit os as ram disk for page file. Setting ClearPagefileAtShutdown may be needed to prevent errors on boot.

  • Sven Groot

    , androidi wrote

    Like I said in the op, when writing to pagefile in 32 bit OS, write to both the inaccessible (over 4GB) memory, and disk. Only read from the ram disk. When the ram disk is full, then purge least frequently used pages from the ram disk and read them back from disk only when needed. Also you could provide some notification that the ram disk is full and further access will be slower.

    This would basically just amount to a very convoluted way of allowing you to access the extra memory (because you have a "pagefile" in the upper bits of memory that is then backed by a real pagefile on disk). Not just convoluted, but also inefficient because of the additional memory copies needed to move stuff in and out of the in-memory "pagefile". If MS wanted you to be able to use the full memory size on client versions of Windows, they would just enable PAE and be done with it rather than enable such a ridiculous scenario.

    You may be able to use the >4GB memory regions for a ramdisk using certain drivers, but this way you would not have the second on-disk pagefile so if your pagefile needs to grow beyond the size of the ramdisk your applications will simply crash with out of memory errors.

    You still haven't provided a valid reason as to why you can't simply run a 64 bit OS, which would avoid all of this mess.

  • Craig_​Matthews

    This is the very definition of doing it wrong. What possible reason could you have for not making your operating system support your installed memory the correct way (e.g. installing 64 bit Windows)?

     

  • Proton2

    @androidi: Have you considered using a USB memory thingy to help with performance in low memory situations via the ReadyBoost technology?

    By the way, one of my computers that I upgraded to Windows 8 performs much better than when Windows 7 was on it. One of the memory modules went bad a while ago and it only has 2 GB of memory, and I haven't replaced the bad module yet.

  • Heywood_J

    , Craig_​Matthews wrote

    This is the very definition of doing it wrong.

    I couldn't agree more.  Seriously, get a 64 bit OS and have all the RAM you want and forget about all that convoluted stuff.

  • blowdart

    emm386 and himem.sys might do it.

    Oh wait a minute ...

    (So why isn't 64bit Windows an option?)

  • androidi

    These 64 bit replies should be truncated as this was about using 32 bit OS.

    I have both 64  & 32 bit installs and I use the latter for stuff that I have found to not work satisfactorily in 64 bit Windows 7. I just find that it starts to crawl after I have lot of IE's opened and it's paging things. One iexplore.exe, 7 million page faults...

     

  • Sven Groot

    , androidi wrote

    These 64 bit replies should be truncated as this was about using 32 bit OS.

    Yet you should know by now that if you are asking to do something so fundamentally wrong and, frankly, stupid, people are going to ignore the question and point out the proper way to do it.

  • evildictait​or

    , androidi wrote

    These 64 bit replies should be truncated as this was about using 32 bit OS.

    I have both 64  & 32 bit installs and I use the latter for stuff that I have found to not work satisfactorily in 64 bit Windows 7. I just find that it starts to crawl after I have lot of IE's opened and it's paging things. One iexplore.exe, 7 million page faults...

    What doesn't work satisfactorily in 64-bit Windows 7 on your 8GB machine? Hopefully you are aware that 64-bit Windows can run every 32-bit applications that your 32-bit Windows 7 can :/

    Also the reason people give you the "use a 64-bit OS" answer is because lots of people are using 32-bit OSes due to misbeliefs about compatibility or performance of 64-bit OSes or out of stubbornness (e.g. I like 32-bit XP - therefore I will wipe my new Win7x64/64GB machine and install XP and then get mad that XP/32 can't use my new device properly).

    If you didn't want responses about 64-bit you should have posted your reason why a 64-bit OS wasn't an acceptable solution, to at least show that you had considered it.

  • Jim Young

    , blowdart wrote

    emm386 and himem.sys might do it.

    Oh wait a minute ...

    (So why isn't 64bit Windows an option?)

    I thought I had been teleported back to 1992.

    Get with the program and upgrade to a 64 bit OS.

  • PaoloM

    I usually rely on this to make sure my Windows installs run at peak performance.

  • evildictait​or

    , PaoloM wrote

    I usually rely on this to make sure my Windows installs run at peak performance.

    Doesn't appear to be supported on Winodws 8 Sad

  • Proton2

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    Doesn't appear to be supported on Winodws 8 Sad

     

    I have been doing a little bit of RTFM on that PaoloM mentioned app and it looks like it just might work on Win8 Wink

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