Coffeehouse Thread

21 posts

Forum Read Only

This forum has been made read only by the site admins. No new threads or comments can be added.

How will they prevent a backlash over Win 8?

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    Vista was grilled for far less sins than this.

    I just can't imagine how they will sell Win8 (with forced Metro) to a public that gets riled up over a changed control panel and UAC.

    Win 8 is like UAC magnified by 1000x. And with that I mean the shock effect. UAC as such wasn't bad, it just shocked users because most of them didn't expect it (Metro on the desktop on the other hand has real issues). Now imagine the same public when you tell them that the start menu, as they know it, is gone, the start button is burried, you must close programs with "swipes", Metro programs are always in full screen, you can't have more than three of them visible etc. and don't forget that everything looks COMPLETELY DIFFERENT NOW (!!!)

    You could as well just shoot them. And taking into account how cowardly MS acts lately ("if something isn't a success immediately, kill it!" WP7 seems to be the only exception), I just can't see what they are thinking with this.

    It seems to be completely mad.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    Well, older users who's ability/willingness to learn a new UI paradigm withered sometime in the 1980's will probably feel right at home.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    Sometimes I think it is actually the self-proclaimed "power users" that have the most difficulty adapting to new user interfaces than the ordinary users they seem most concerned will be confused.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    That may be true. I'm surprised how many presumably power user types seem to hate the Windows 8 Explorer Ribbon. But personally, I'm more than willing to adopt new UI paradigms when   they offer something better than what I currently have. I just don't see that with the current Windows 8 FrankenUI.

  • User profile image
    Craig_​Matthews

    , AndyC wrote

    Sometimes I think it is actually the self-proclaimed "power users" that have the most difficulty adapting to new user interfaces than the ordinary users they seem most concerned will be confused.

    I don't know. It seems perfectly natural to me that people of all levels of computer skill might have difficulty using touch gestures on non-touch screen desktop computers with mice and keyboards.

    Call me a fracking lunatic.

     

  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    I don't see why Microsoft would have to even sell Windows 8, when it makes 20-30% off App store revenues. It would make more sense to give it away. With better performance, security, and management, I could live with a free version bump.

    -Josh

  • User profile image
    sysrpl

    If the default user interface for Windows 8 is the Metro UI, mark my words: It will be noted as the biggest tech blunder in history.

    I don't mind change, as long as it's made for good reason. Part of the problem is that personal computer (and by this I mean the desktop and laptop computers we've been using since the late 70's and early 80's) UI metaphors evolved to the point where it became hard to think of good ideas to improve them. You know something beyond full16 million colors every including on icons as well as movable windows which you easily move about and organize like stacks of paper on your desk.

    Once we reach the point where all that was solved, someone made the mistake of trying to unify your game console, phone, and personal computer.

    NO.

    People like game consoles because they don't have to worry about hardware requirements or fussing about with configuring their systems when they just want to press a button and play a game with friends.

    People like phone to be made smart so they can do more than make phone calls. They enjoy being able to get read about what their their friends are doing (Facebook) while working their job as a sales clerk at eyeglass 20/20.

    People like their personal computer because they can create content and solve problems with it. They enjoy editing video, photos, and writing software on them. And although they might not enjoy it as much, they prefer to use PC's when doing their home work or business work (MS Office/Quick Books).

    These are separate things and mixing them up will always be bound to failure.

    When people want to create content or work they want a keyboard and not a touch interface. They want to stack their tasks and shuffle them like paper so that they can easily do something. Like copy a picture from a website and open it in their photo editor, or sum up some hours in excel then compose an email with an attached invoice.

    When people are playing games they don't want their friends to know they wasted 40 hours that week playing Skyrim when they already have a 40 hour a week job. They don't (or shouldn't) want to crush through acts 5-10 of Mass Effect 3 while at work.

    ...

    In summary, people don't want these devices unified. They should be and will be kept separate. No one who gains experience with any of these devices wants to see them combined. No one , that is except for big tech companies hoping to get a slice out of everyone's cake (the owner of iTunes/App Stores).

  • User profile image
    elmer

    I said it at the announcement of the Metro UI, and still hold to it... there should be a UI personality mode that the user can choose as the default for a device.

  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    @sysrpl: After using the previews, it still seems like Metro is really great for content consumption, while the Desktop is better for production. However, I just downloaded my first apps today and will have to play around with it some more before I can back up my opinion with actual factual content.

    There is a real possibility that the richness of contract composiblity might overcome any inherent weaknesses in the interaction impedance mismatch between a UI that was designed for touch and a user with more traditional HIDs.

    -Josh

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    Honestly, I have better Metro experience with WP7. It takes forever to open an app on Win8.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    OrigamiCar

    I have been playing with it on my build tablet for a few hours now and it's amazing how quickly you get used to it and feel comfortable using it. There are still lots of rough spots, but on a tablet/slate, I think the UI absolutely makes sense. I really do think that the Windows 8 tablet/slate story is going to be a good one, and finally could give the iPad a run for its money (eventually).
    In fact, earlier I picked up my iPad and was trying to cycle through the apps by dragging from the left and lost count of the amount of times I tried to open the charms bar! I've already had a couple of ideas for apps I want to make and have been sketching some storyboards for the last couple of hours.

    On a desktop though - I just don't know. Admittedly I haven't installed it on a ''proper' pc yet (it keeps crashing out on my home pc during installation, so I've given up for the evening).

    I honestly can't see this being a sucess in business at this stage. I'm willing to keep an open mind though, but thinking about my end users at the office, they're going to struggle with the new UI.

    I also want to know more about how it is with multiple monitors - ie, can metro apps only run full screen on a single monitor, or can you target one metro app on one screen and another on a second/third screen...? Once I get my home PC set up, I'll be evaluating this more closely though.

  • User profile image
    Richard.Hein

    I find my self completely frustrated with Windows 8 after all the annoyances tonight.  Too many to list.  There's a lot of great ideas, but there's just way too much wrong with this.  Sorry Microsoft - you're going to have to START AGAIN.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @OrigamiCar:

    I think I'm in your camp on this one. If you close one eye, step on your foot, and forget about Windows of the past the new metrofied Windows on a tablet without the legacy desktop has something going for it. The problem with that is it's gotta go head to head with the established iPad. Based on how well WP faired against the iPhone I don't think Microsoft has a snowball's chance in hell. Their only hope will be keeping tablet hunters and laptop replacers in the Windows camp with the lure of the legacy desktop. The problem with the latter is that Microsoft has wrecked the desktop experience with a thousand little cuts in order to try and generate some momentum for metro apps.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    , Craig_Matthews wrote

    *snip*

    I don't know. It seems perfectly natural to me that people of all levels of computer skill might have difficulty using touch gestures on non-touch screen desktop computers with mice and keyboards.

    Call me a fracking lunatic.

    You don't have to do any touch gestures though, so I'm not sure I get your point.

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    I agree with a lot of people here. 

    For tablets it looks good, very good. I also wouldn't be "offended" if it was built into the desktop version; however it isn't just built in but it is also forced down your throat. 

    My biggest "fear" isn't really change - it is loss of efficiency. Metro as a desktop/mouse system is 75%+ less efficient than a normal Windows desktop - there is a reason overlapping windows were invented to begin with!    

    Right now I have the following running:
     - 2x IM applications (MSN/Skype)
     - Steam 
     - iTunes (side monitor)
     - Netflix (side monitor)
     - Chrome (mid monitor) 
     - VS 11 beta (background - compiling) 

    Explain to me how I manage these on a Metro UI with up to three "apps" on the screen at any one time? Or do I have to close my other work each time I want to jump between things? 

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    , ManipUni wrote

    there is a reason overlapping windows were invented to begin with!    

    Yes, 14" monitors and graphics cards that maxed out at 640*480.

    Right now I have the following running:
     - 2x IM applications (MSN/Skype)
     - Steam 
     - iTunes (side monitor)
     - Netflix (side monitor)
     - Chrome (mid monitor) 
     - VS 11 beta (background - compiling) 

    Explain to me how I manage these on a Metro UI with up to three "apps" on the screen at any one time? Or do I have to close my other work each time I want to jump between things? 

    The whole point of Metro apps is that you don't ever have to close your other work. At all.

    You might have all those apps open, but how many are you actively using at any one time? Do you really need to see Steam and iTunes whilst you're reading something in Chrome, for example? And as more and more apps become Metro-ified, you'll need them open less since contracts provide better ways of moving data between applications than the typical copy/paste arrangement used between windowed applications.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    @wastingtimewithforums:Every time you have proclaimed apocryphal tales, you have been wrong. I know flame posts in forums are a fetish for you, but people are on to you.

  • User profile image
    androidi

    Several years ago I suggested (most likely years later than some others) that they'd make this kind of UI for Windows but I also said it needs to work on top of existing desktop.

    My money is on that they'll have the Win 7 desktop pretty much intact there, but since that code is already quite well working, they don't want to have it in these preview releases as they want feedback and bug reports on the new stuff. Traditionally they'd not do things this way but there's a pressure to get these new bits into high quality and out soon so maybe.

    Also it will "show we are listening to customer feedback" when they at last minute announce that the old desktop will be there too.

    My predictions are usually right so I'm not too concerned. Of course if I turn out to be wrong then I will definitely stick to Win 7 on my desktop. (I may have to in any case as some of the legacy compatibility changes sound like they might break bunch more old stuff just like Vista did).

Conversation locked

This conversation has been locked by the site admins. No new comments can be made.